TA Ep. 166 Leigh Ann & Kelly – Navigating New Beginnings: Starting a PhD in Depth Psychology

Leigh Ann: [00:00:00] Okay, well we are back, Kelly and I, for another kind of dual, dual conversation and this is going to be really fun because I was telling Kelly I really want to share about having started my PhD program. The level of, I think, impact this has already been for me and kind of what it’s going to be. And, um, And just getting to share that with all of you guys, I think is going to be really, really fun. And then we’re also going to talk about some themes of when life gets busy or is so busy. This feeling of like every moment needs to be absolutely optimized. And I have really felt myself stuck in that the last few months, I think of just like, well, should I take a walk or do the sauna or should I read or watch this TV show?

And, oh no, if I watch this TV show, I’m wasting my time. So we’re, we’re going to get into some of that a little [00:01:00] bit, but I think maybe we can start with just breaking down. the experience of these last few weeks with the start of the program.

Kelly Schmidt: start of the program. And what is the program, Leigh Ann? What are we doing?

Leigh Ann: This is why Kelly’s here, guys, because I would just go right in to telling you my whole experience and you all would be like, what is she even talking about? So. I, I’ve mentioned a couple of times on the podcast that I am starting, have started a PhD program in depth psychology and depth psychology is literally the study of the unconscious mind.

And it really is so unbelievably kismet that I even found this program because for four years now, Since probably 2020, I’ve been researching PhD programs in psychology, but they’re all, you know, focusing on the conscious mind and it’s all very conventional psychology, which has never really resonated with me.

I think it’s [00:02:00] a little bit dated in some of its approaches.

I kind of found myself resigned to be like, okay, well, I’m not going to do a program just to do it, just to have letters behind my name. I also know that just wouldn’t be sustainable. There’s no way I could do a five year program. Um, if I didn’t absolutely love the material.

So I hadn’t looked in a while. And the funny thing about this though, is that the subconscious mind has, you know, been the foundation of my practice from day one, what’s going on in the subconscious. And yet somehow I had literally never heard of this term depth psychology. And so when I, I kid you not, I saw an ad on

Instagram,

from Pacifica, the Institute I’m going to for their program.

And I was like, depth psychology. That’s interesting. I wonder what that is. Um, and the full program is depth, depth psychology and integrative healing. So it’s, The study of the unconscious and then literally looking at healing from this integrative perspective. [00:03:00] And so when I saw it, I almost was like, okay, this is, is this real?

Is this real life? This feels too good to be true. and that kind of started the whole process. And that was back in like March and April

Kelly Schmidt: of this

Leigh Ann: of this year.

Kelly Schmidt: Okay. You hustled to make that happen.

Leigh Ann: Yes.

And I think that’s also. Maybe part of sort of like the wobbliness of a big

Kelly Schmidt: Mm. that

Leigh Ann: that I’ve only had a few months of kind of anticipation leading up to this and to prepare for it.

Um, but here we are, we started end of September, almost a month in.

Kelly Schmidt: You’re doing it. Does it, does it still feel wobbly or was that more anticipatory?

Leigh Ann: I think the anticipation is always more, I think maybe we’ve talked about this where it’s just like that, that in between that almost kind of holding of the breath of like, okay,

I’ve made all the changes I need to make.

I’ve done everything I [00:04:00] need to do. There’s nothing else to do, but wait for this thing to start. Um, and then to see what’s different and what shifts I might need to make once it’s begun. So in some ways, yeah, now, now it feels good to just be like, okay,

Kelly Schmidt: we’re doing it. Okay.

Leigh Ann: it. And then that kind of on top of this big office move I’m doing, which also is still kind of in that waiting period, probably by the time this releases, I will have already moved offices.

So it’s so much transition in a year, you know, ending a relationship, moving into a new place. PhD, moving offices. It’s just so, so

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah, so much disruption. Yeah. How are you staying steady?

Leigh Ann: Oh my gosh. Well, Saraset was a big one and, and Evox, as you know, for sure. And you and friends and everyone just keeping my feet on the ground. But I was telling you, I think I texted you, maybe I was like, or I don’t, we had a meeting or something and I was saying, Oh, we need to [00:05:00] talk about this because the first weekend of my program, it was a whole zoom weekend.

So we had like eight hours of class Saturday and then four hours of class Sunday. And the first hour was all orientation. And I found myself just having to hold back tears the whole time. And even in the moment I was able to identify, there’s so much resonance here. There were just a knowing of, This is where I’m supposed to be.

Um, but as I was reflecting on it deeper, so I told you that I was like, Oh, we need to talk about this is

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah. You were

Leigh Ann: I was like, this is, this is going to be a moment when I look back on, I think years and years from now where I go, that was a moment of massive change and up level in my life. Like, I think so much is going to point

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah. Or it kind of like started you on this new path.

Yeah. And you know, you’re like, oh my gosh, I am now on a new path. That’s crazy. Yeah. And sometimes we’re not always aware we were on a new path until much [00:06:00] later. So it’s kind of, it’s kind of like a little trippy to be in the moment and thinking, oh man, I am, I know. I just stepped onto it right now.

Leigh Ann: Whereas now, yes, completely. And so I was journaling on it Sunday afterwards, but it was so profound and I, this is gonna be kind of wordy, so I apologize everyone, but it was so profound for a number of reasons.

The first being. My entire life, entire life, even as like a six, seven, eight year old, there’s been this urgency within me of like,

there’s

something I’m supposed to do here in this realm, on this planet. And I need to get to it. It just always this underlying urgency and not anxiety. I think there’s, there’s a big difference, at least in how I perceive them and how it felt, because it didn’t feel like anxiety.

It just felt like. Come on, I’m supposed to get somewhere. I got to do these things. I got to get there. the best way that I can describe it [00:07:00] is as I was sitting down in that orientation, the urgency just completely vanished, which was so profound for me. Because when you’ve had something that’s there your whole life, I think I, I knew, you know, even as I got a little older, I recognized what that was about.

I could tell this is because I feel like there’s something big I’m supposed to do. And I feel like I’m looking for something or pursuing

Kelly Schmidt: for it, yeah.

Leigh Ann: and hoping, hoping that this feeling I have, that I have a big purpose and have something to do is real and not just like made up in my head. And so you kind of have that hope, right?

But you’re also not totally sure. You’re like, I could feel this way the rest of my

Kelly Schmidt: life. And so,

Leigh Ann: And so to have this, I can’t even tell you, like on a cellular soul level, such a calmness come over Oh, you’re, you’ve arrived not like at your end destination, but [00:08:00] you’ve arrived at that

point.

And, and that was so, I think there was first of all, like such a relief in it.

I’m

like, Okay,

I don’t have to feel this urgency.

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah, well, it’s two decades of urgency. I mean, that would be a massive, not wait necessarily, but just sort of like a, Oh, it was, it was true and there was a point to this. There was a point to the urgent feelings and there was a point to the looking and the searching.

And it’s this. I found

Leigh Ann: Yeah. Yeah. The analogy, cause you know, I always have to come up with an analogy. It was like, It was sort of like everything in my life up till this point has been, um, conditioning hikes or training hikes, if you will, where they were important. There was a lot to learn and gain from them. They were so necessary.

I had to do those little hikes first to get prepared for the big trek.

Kelly Schmidt: Okay.

Leigh Ann: And [00:09:00] I think that urgency I always felt was like, I know there’s a big trek coming. Um, and I’m doing all these little hikes, but this feeling of what if I’m doing all these little preparation hikes and there actually isn’t a big trek. And so again, kind of that feeling that day of the first class was, Oh, almost like, Oh, I’m standing at the, the entryway to the new path, like you were saying. And so again, that peace, that relief of. Okay, I felt this existed. I hoped this existed. Now I’m here. I see that it’s real. And again, an arrival in that sense of, oh, I’ve arrived at the, not the real thing, but the big one.

I’ve arrived. And then also knowing, and now there’s a whole journey from here.

Kelly Schmidt: here. Right. It’s like getting to Everest Base Camp. You know? You’re like, you still gotta climb that mountain. But there’s a lot of relief [00:10:00] around. We made it. All the preparation happened. It’s behind us. I’m now doing the damn thing.

And what a gift.

Leigh Ann: and just this feeling of, again, out of this and not even, not even just the PhD, but I really do think out of this.

So much of what I’m meant to do and put into the world is going to come.

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah.

Leigh Ann: And,

and that’s what’s so exciting too.

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah, even the other tangential paths, like other paths will come as well, right?

You’ll, you’ll walk down other kind of, yeah, I

Leigh Ann: the side trails that only exist on

Kelly Schmidt: because of that. Exactly. Yes.

Leigh Ann: Mm hmm.

Mm

Kelly Schmidt: Perfectly said. Yeah.

Leigh Ann: So I, it just, I knew I was so excited about this. I knew it was going to be amazing. I did. I was not expecting that. I was not expecting this. Holy shit. This is almost like [00:11:00] my whole being has known my whole life. This was coming. This was going to be a huge part of the story. And now that I’ve I’m here again, that relief of.

Okay. I knew this existed. So it just, it did kind of blow me off my feet for that weekend of, Whoa. Okay. This is so much bigger and more important even than I thought

Kelly Schmidt: Right, right, okay. And how has it been in the weeks since?

What have you been surprised by, challenged by?

Leigh Ann: nothing but amazing. Literally. It’s so cool. I mean, what kind of program starts off? The whole thing, like the whole year with, uh, like community wide meditation. That was literally the first thing we did. We all got on the zoom call. There’s like 60 plus people across all the years and the professors guide us in a meditation.

And you’re like, Oh yeah, this is where I’m

Kelly Schmidt: this is it.

This is it

Leigh Ann: And just all of my, the [00:12:00] individuals, there’s probably 25 or so of us in my specific cohort. That we’re all going to spend the next, you know, at least three years together in coursework and then a couple of years of dissertation. But already so many people who it’s like, yes, you get it too.

You get that this singular kind of conventional conscious based approach to healing is effective, but only to a point. And we need to go deeper and we need to look at the being as a whole being. And even as I’ve started reading some of the texts, Um, Jung, who is young, who’s the kind of one of the big founders of depth psychology, one of his whole premises is this idea of the wounded healer.

That you, the kind of, some of the best healers are the ones who have been so wounded themselves, but also this deeper idea that to be a good practitioner, you absolutely must be doing work on yourself. It’s [00:13:00] foundational. And I do think that is a widely accepted thing. I don’t, I think it’s widely accepted, not very widely practiced.

Yeah. And to him, it was like absolutely foundational. If you cannot sit with yourself and look at yourself and try to understand yourself and maybe not without help, but if you can’t do that, you’re not going to be able to do that for others nearly as well. And so that it’s just like everything I’m reading is like, Oh my God, yes, this, this is what I’ve been doing.

This is what I’ve been practicing and preaching for all these years now, but kind of what I have felt to be alone in isolation with no one else in that world, in that psychology world, who’s echoing back a similar sentiment. And so to now be in this world where all the professors are taking this perspective and we’re reading books about like. I mean, we’re just going to read about so many things, generational trauma, indigenous trauma, [00:14:00] um, research that’s honoring to the people you study, you know, it’s just, it’s such a different approach

that I’m about. So

Kelly Schmidt: pretty magical, honestly.

Leigh Ann: it’s been amazing. It’s been obviously an, you know, an adjustment with the reading and we’re recording this maybe.

Only a week before I go on campus for the first time for a full

Kelly Schmidt: Oh, that’s going to be a whole new

Leigh Ann: So that’ll be a whole, there’ll be like a whole new update that comes after that. Cause that’s going to be amazing. I think to just all be in person together, but literally to that point, it’s like they have someone on campus who leads sound baths and you can signed up for a sound bath.

And if any, if any of us students. You know, likes to guide meditation or guide breath work. You know, we’re, we’re encouraged to set up sessions that we all can attend.

Kelly Schmidt: They’re really nurturing your healing along the way, right? Which I think you would say just breeds more capacity, right? Taking care of the mind, body, [00:15:00] and spirit allows for you as a practitioner to open up even more fully and receive the learnings in an even deeper way.

Leigh Ann: you learn and

the research you contribute into the world. As who you become as a person in this. And that is just so, so cool because I think that really is the foundation yes. Smart people have impact. Sure. I think it’s healed. People, authentic people have impact as well and sometimes bigger. So that was really beautiful and special and it’s just been amazing and it’s been kind of fun to get into a different groove of now.

of my weekends are spent at a coffee shop, reading all the texts, doing essays, discussion boards, all the things. But it’s so funny how, you know, I, I did my master’s as well. And it always gets a [00:16:00] little better, right? Undergrad is so much busy work where you’re just like, Oh, why am I doing all this? Graduate school gets a little bit better.

And then this is a completely different where it’s like, I Everything I’m doing, whether it’s writing an essay, reading a text, taking notes on a text, engaging in a discussion board, I know is ultimately going to serve

Kelly Schmidt: It sounds like activities and readings and like even the discussion board, it sounds like stuff you’d want to do anyway. Like, regardless of being in a program or not, you would be deeply interested in reading these texts.

Leigh Ann: Oh my gosh,

Kelly Schmidt: So you might as well get credit and get a Ph. D. out

of it, Leigh Ann

Leigh Ann: and I am paying a lot for it, that’s the difference, but it will

Kelly Schmidt: getting nice meditations and

Leigh Ann: Yes, yes, no, it will be completely worth it and all of that is renewable.

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah, very true. Very, very, very true.

Leigh Ann: that’s, I mean, that’s really the, you know, The biggest updates, I guess with that.

[00:17:00] I think it’s just fun to share because, I mean, who knows, maybe half the, half the listeners won’t find this conversation interesting at all, but it, it is really special and important for me that the podcast, the podcast audience, my clients, patients, everyone, I love to share my heart. And it does feel in so many ways, like you all are on this journey with me.

And you all are a huge part of it. I think I was thinking this the other day that every patient and client I’ve had before I get my PhD, they’re going to be like the

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah.

Leigh Ann: know, the ones who were there before,

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah.

Leigh Ann: before anything, before I, you know, anyone thought I was doing anything special. And so there, all of you are always going to have such a special, special place in my heart Yeah, you know, you guys were there with me when I was in my tiny little office and quiet Dana [00:18:00] point. so it’s really fun. And to that end, it’s like, that’s why I want to do these episodes here and there’s to kind of welcome people into the journey too.

Kelly Schmidt: Right. Well, I’m sure we’ll all be benefiting greatly from everything you learn over the next three years in coursework.

And I’m already going to start taking bets on what your dissertation is going to be about. And it’s, it’s going to be a great ride.

Leigh Ann: know. I know.

Kelly Schmidt: Oh my gosh. Okay. So. Your day to day has changed. How are you managing that? Mentally, emotionally, with clients, you know, you’re putting on a student hat, but it’s not like you can’t be full time.

You’re, you’re juggling a lot of full time hats really, you know, student, but also business owner, friend, sister, all the things.

Leigh Ann: Yeah. You know, what is funny, actually, I think this is worth saying because leading up to the start of the program, especially. I felt just absolutely, [00:19:00] almost paralyzed with indecision in some of these stupid day to day things. Again, like, okay, I have an hour. Should I do a 30 minute walk or should I do 30 minutes of yoga?

Or should I do 30 minutes in the sauna?

Um, or should I make a big meal? And that’s very unusual for me to get stuck in that. And I. I do think on the one hand, a part of that is, and I see this often too with clients, getting way too, that’s when I’m like a hundred percent in the

Kelly Schmidt: the

Leigh Ann: There’s no sensing, feeling, intuiting happening.

Kelly Schmidt: Right.

Leigh Ann: And so when I do give myself permission to be like, what would feel good? Take a second. Like in your mind’s eye, imagine doing each of those three things and in your body, which one feels best. And do that. But you kind of have to work against what’s the sentiment beneath this? [00:20:00] Well, should I do this or this or this?

The sentiment beneath it is, there is one right option and you better choose it or you’ve wasted that time. And that’s, that is super anxiety

Kelly Schmidt: Oh

yeah. Where does that come

Leigh Ann: Where does it

Kelly Schmidt: Like, where does the belief, like, there’s one right answer about what to do with the next 30 minutes.

Like, who, in my mind as I’m thinking that through, like, who would have that answer if not me? But, you know, for myself, right? But where does the belief come from?

Leigh Ann: like, who would have that if not but, you know, for myself, right?

But where does the belief come from? extra control over the things I do have. And I think it can go towards creating this sense of safety of like, there is one right way. [00:21:00] And because I feel so out of control, if I can figure out what the right way is, then I’ll feel

good. I’ll feel safe. I’ll feel at peace.

Kelly Schmidt: Or

even stave off something from happening, almost, you know? Like, I’ll just, I’ll keep other things at bay because it will have been the right

Leigh Ann: Yeah.

And I think that’s, At least that’s one angle of it that I think we just need to check ourselves with sometimes of, okay, my, it’s just a pattern. I see it so often that the brain does want to do that when things are out of control externally, it tries to create or exert control.

Oftentimes a faux sense of

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah.

Leigh Ann: over all these things. And I think that’s what it was more for me is like, There’s so many things I’m waiting for. I don’t know what’s going to happen with this. I don’t know where this is going. So let me like, you know, grab, you know, my fists around all these things and just hyper control everything I

Kelly Schmidt: That you, that you’re able to,

Leigh Ann: [00:22:00] Yeah, but it’s such an awful feeling. I don’t know if you’ve felt this. We’re because it, it is also kind of jarring to be like,

I felt, I felt almost a little shaken and insecure of what is going on with me. Why can’t I figure out what I want to do in this

Kelly Schmidt: Right, right. Or I start trying to do all the things, which, which isn’t, I’m like, I can’t decide. So I’m gonna, you know, I’m sure for you, it’s like sit on the sauna blanket while also like reading a book while also drinking like an herbal that like all the things I’m trying to cram them into that one hour so that I won’t have to make that decision.

I’ll, I’ll leave nothing out. I’ll figure out a way to do it all. And at the end of an hour, I am so rattled. Yeah. From having run around doing all the things.

Leigh Ann: We don’t, we feel worse.

Kelly Schmidt: I feel worse. It’s

Leigh Ann: Yeah. So I think, and I think this is maybe a little bit of our personality differences is because freeze is such my go to state.

what

I tend to do is get paralyzed and then maybe like just scroll on [00:23:00]

Kelly Schmidt: for an hour instead.

Leigh Ann: And then, and then you still feel awful because you’re like, so now I did

Kelly Schmidt: so now

Leigh Ann: Um, or it’s some type, some form of collapse when I’m in those states.

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah. Been there myself as

Leigh Ann: Yeah. And then maybe what you’re expressing is more of that fight flight where it’s just like, okay, well let’s lean in even more and see how much we can cram

Kelly Schmidt: So true. Do you see any patterns around the circumstances where this pops up for you? Is it like a time of day? Is it a day of the week? Is it when everything is just built up to a breaking point?

What does that kind of look like?

Leigh Ann: like? I think it is when there’s a lot of unknowns, honestly, when there’s just a lot of unknowns in my life, the brain wants to make as much known as possible.

Um, at least that’s the pattern I see with myself. And then what, what that leads to though, is yes, I want to make the unknown known, but I start to go more and more and more into [00:24:00] rational side only, intellect only. the problem, the problem with that is a number of things. One, the intellect can be very black and white sometimes.

There is a right way. There is a right thing to do and a wrong thing to do. A best and a worst. And in some ways, maybe that’s true, but if we shake that out a little bit, it’s kind of like, you know what? If I do a 30 minute walk or 30 minutes of yoga, It’s really not, the weightiness of that decision is nowhere near as intense as it feels,

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah.

Leigh Ann: but my brain is making it into this thing.

And so

that’s actually even more so when I try to catch myself is like, am I trying to, trying to make a decision from a purely logical perspective? Which oddly enough, maybe to some people sounds so counterintuitive where they, they almost feel like. [00:25:00] I need more logic. Maybe I’m only making decisions from emotions, but I also think there’s a big difference between making decisions from emotions and making decisions from intuition and a felt

Kelly Schmidt: sense.

Sure. Sure. Sometimes I feel like when I’m particularly emotionally overwhelmed or overburdened, it’s hard for me to get into a felt sense. For example, this is so funny that you brought this, um, question to the table today around our shoulds and, and how to manage, like, our time in these, Moments and how we make up almost this like faux pressure.

I could not decide yesterday What sort of physical activity I should do that would be nurturing and so Because I couldn’t decide and I had limited time I was like i’ll pick something in my kitchen that will make the decision for me So I went over and got some three different sized grape tomatoes, put them in a bowl, shook them around, named each one a different exercise and picked out one because I could not pick.

Okay. And that is how I decided. That may sound [00:26:00] totally unhinged, but like, I think this points to how we all probably go through this. Like, how are we going? How, like the pressure of like certain situations when maybe we are particularly overwhelmed, um, or, or, To your point, have quite a few unknowns that feel not great to sit with.

Um, and maybe we’re not capable of sitting with them in that moment. We just need to go take a walk or do a yoga, but we can’t choose.

Leigh Ann: Hey, you know what? Not a bad idea. Not a bad

Kelly Schmidt: a great potato. Oh, so funny.

Leigh Ann: I might use that at some point.

Kelly Schmidt: you go.

Leigh Ann: no, but it’s, uh, I, I don’t know. Uh, this is just what I experienced that when I am 100 percent the logic side of my brain, I actually can’t make a decision because the, the funny part about that is You almost could make anything logically make sense.

Kelly Schmidt: that’s what I was just thinking. You could [00:27:00] rationalize any choice. Yes. Yes.

Leigh Ann: Which is why I think I end up going in circles because I’m like, well, the walk would be good because I’m getting

sunshine and I’m moving my body and I’m supporting my limb system. But, but yoga would be good because I’m stretching and I’m calming my nervous system and I’m whatever.

And,

and ultimately again, it’s kind of like, look, it’s all beneficial, but I honestly feel like. What is going to be most beneficial is, this is going to sound maybe not helpful at all, like just what feels best, not what logically makes sense. What feels best for me right now, but that’s hard because we do have to tune

Kelly Schmidt: tune in

Leigh Ann: and I think it’s harder to tune in, in those moments specifically, because there already is a discomfort we’re running from.

Kelly Schmidt: Right. Oh, that’s so true.

Leigh Ann: There is an emotional something, unease, dis ease going on. That’s the reason we ran over to our rational [00:28:00] brain in the first place. was like, Ooh, I don’t want to feel that. Well, let’s pop over here.

Kelly Schmidt: Totally.

Leigh Ann: Um, and so if I tune into the felt sense, I also have to tune into that emotion that I was trying to avoid in the first place, but I don’t know it.

I make so many decisions from. The felt sense. A lot of my decisions, obviously this isn’t like straightforward advice, you know, everyone take it with a grain of salt,

Kelly Schmidt: Well, I think we should differentiate, like, it’s not feelings, you’re not allowing your feelings to decide for you, it’s felt sense and that’s different.

Leigh Ann: More of that intuition and exactly.

It’s not, well, I’m, I’m so sad right now, so I’m going to, I don’t know. Eat a pint of ice cream, although there’s nothing wrong with that. Um, or I’m super angry, so I’m gonna call this person and yell at them. It’s more, honestly what I do literally is what I said earlier, where it’s like, I, I will take a second to close my eyes and [00:29:00] visualize myself going through whatever the options

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah.

Leigh Ann: and see how it just physically feels in my body.

And oftentimes it’s just whichever one in that moment feels better to my body. And this is more talking about, um, you know, some of these like day to day things, but I even did that like recently with this office move to Ascent

in a lot of ways there again, coming back to that, like you could rationalize anything I could rationalize making this move.

I could rationalize not and staying out on my own and doing my own thing. And in many ways, there were some parts of it that maybe don’t make sense or didn’t make sense from a strictly business perspective.

And yet,

like when I tuned into that, it was like, this is what feels so right in my body and my intuition.

And go with that.

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah.

Leigh Ann: it just helps so much more clarity come through though, too. But I think there’s [00:30:00] something about that, that, you know, the visual for me is like, we’re, we’re clinging so tightly with this like closed fist to whatever the decision is or the choices. And because our fist is so tight, we, there’s no room for any clarity to come

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah.

but how to get out of that back over to the felt sun side, you know I think it’s it’s hard when you’re you’ve already kind of run away from and are actively trying to escape You It’s difficult to run back over.

Leigh Ann: I think in some ways, in some ways, you know, as always. Inner dialogues that we can have. And I think part of that inner dialogue is, okay, part of my brain right now thinks there is one right option. Can I start to believe that’s not That in the grand scheme of things, if I do this or this today, it’s really not going to make that big of a difference.

This isn’t as weighty of a decision as it feels. So I can, I give myself permission to [00:31:00] do what feels good. Not, not even necessarily what’s best. Just what.

Um, I think that’s a part of it, having a little inner dialogue like that. But I also think sometimes a good tweak is also

get,

do something physical, movement based to get us out of that rational brain,

Kelly Schmidt: Yep. Back into the

Leigh Ann: back into the body, a walk, some dancing, singing, even to just kind of help, help shake us out and get into more of that feeling

self.

Kelly Schmidt: even just a few, like, really deep, slow breaths, I think, can sometimes get me back into like, Whoa, what was I doing? Why was I so whacked out over this? Okay, let’s just, alright, it’s not that serious.

Leigh Ann: Yes! Yes!

Kelly Schmidt: yes.

It’s

Leigh Ann: almost like you, you float above your body, and you see yourself down at the table.

Almost like with, you know, you know in the funny cartoons where the, you know, Finance guy always has the little like beads he’s pushing up and down.

I don’t know what that probably has a [00:32:00] name. I don’t know what it is like calculating all the things. It’s like, I see myself floating over my body and there’s, you know, little humanly and just calculating what she should do for the next hour. And it almost seems silly when you look at it from that perspective of like, Oh my gosh, no, this, this really is not that big a

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah, but I agree it does come up for me because I also feel right now like there’s a plenty of unknowns that are so irksome and weigh on me.

And I know you feel that way about yourself. What are some of the unknowns that you feel like are kind of swimming around in your brain these days that, you know, maybe contribute to some of these moments of

Leigh Ann: Yeah, well part of what I was also going to say is that something completely flipped as well with the start of the PhD program in terms of that Super intense should anxiety that I was experiencing. Cause once I started the program, it completely went away and I had started [00:33:00] working on it to just give myself permission.

But, um, once I started the program, there just was this sense of like, Oh yeah, I can do what feels good. Um, obviously, obviously there’s, I have responsibilities. I have things I need to do and get done each day, but outside of those things, a month ago, it was like, I want to watch a movie

Every night.

That feels good. And so I just let myself watch a movie every night. And I would have a moment of being like, is this the best use of your time? I don’t know. Maybe you should be reading other books. Maybe you should be starting a new program, whatever it was. And just telling myself, first of all, I trust that this isn’t going to be me forever.

That every night for the rest of my life, I’m going to want to watch a movie. I also know myself deeper in that sense of, I have phases where it’ll be like, you know what? I feel like watching a movie. It’s so cozy. Just me, myself, and I, [00:34:00] and I was there for like a month and now I’ve shifted into, I want to read at night.

Kelly Schmidt: what a beautiful reminder to like we are continually evolving just because you do something for a period of time doesn’t mean you’re going to do it forever. Or if you lean into something a little bit extra and you kind of feel like, Oh, well, I need this support right now. What does that mean? Like, it’s not going to be you for a time and all eternity.

You’re an evolving creature. So if you need to watch a movie every night for a month, then. How about it?

Leigh Ann: yes. It’s not a, you know,

cause then the ego wants to come up and be like, Well, I want to be the type of person who journals every night and reads her books and wakes up and meditates every morning. And

Kelly Schmidt: proving that to?

Leigh Ann: Completely.

Kelly Schmidt: no tribunal. Like, no one’s

Leigh Ann: the funny thing is, is like, I think we think we would want to prove that to the outside world.

Really. It’s, we want to prove it to ourselves.

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah.

Leigh Ann: And so part of that shift is knowing, [00:35:00] I think I even had this conversation with myself of just because I watch a movie every night for a couple of weeks. Doesn’t mean I’m lazy. Doesn’t mean I’m not spiritual. Doesn’t mean I’m not grounded. Doesn’t mean I’m checking out from life.

And, and when I remind myself of all that, it’s like, oh, okay, yeah, I can be all those things and Do this,

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah, yeah, completely.

Leigh Ann: Um, but back to your question, what are, what, what are some of the unknowns? I think of course, before the program started, it I mean, there were so many unknowns this year, which probably is why I experienced this to the degree that I’ve never experienced before, where I just felt paralyzed and it just started to feel so awful.

I was like, Oh my God, why can’t I make the simplest decisions anymore? Um, so yeah, a part of it was like, How is this program going to feel? It seems like a dream. Am I just fooling myself? Am I going to start this program and be [00:36:00] like, Oh, I completely misunderstood the memo. Um, is it going to be way too much?

Am I actually going to need to like close my practice? Because I’m not going to be able to, uh, work and do this program. And I think those were some really big questions that at the start of the program, so much peace came in with, and then still unknowns of what’s it going to be like when we move office spaces and

wanting to keep launching bioenergetic testing.

And what’s that going to look like now that we’re in with Ascent, um, you know, are people going to come? Are we going to do events? Just so many things. And I think kind of similar to the PhD program, there’s a feeling of this move is important. It’s going to open the door for so many things, things, some things I might already be aware of and other things that I might have no idea, can’t even anticipate are coming.

Um, [00:37:00] and so that feeling of. Yeah. Just what on earth is this going to

look

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah, what’s happening

Leigh Ann: How’s it going to be? How can I prepare myself better for this transition? Um, but I really do think at least for me at this time, the PhD was the biggest thing. And like I said, once that started, just such a calmness

Kelly Schmidt: So glad. Yeah. And you’re doing it. I mean, you’re doing it one, one week at a time. It’s coming together. And I think you are always such a great, um, encourager of your clients and friends of like, you’ve proven to yourself over and over again that you can trust yourself to have your back. And a reminder to you, Leigh Ann, you can trust yourself.

Leigh Ann: Oof.

Kelly Schmidt: Um, and so, um, Can all of us, you know, we’ve come this far, wherever we’re hearing this today, um, you know, we’ve come this far and we’ve had our back. So we’ll find a way.

Leigh Ann: Yeah, yeah. I think it’s funny that you’re saying that [00:38:00] because For so many years, I didn’t trust myself and I had good reason to, because I would self sabotage all the time.

And the first, I’d say, like, two years when I launched my practice, I did so much EVOX on myself around that topic of You No, Leigh Ann, I don’t trust you.

No, I don’t trust that if you get busy, you’re not gonna sabotage. No, I don’t trust that if you make more money, you’re not gonna sabotage all these things. And so I do feel like some there’s an inkling, but it’s so small now, of Okay, you’re stepping into more, bigger, higher, better, whatever, things than you ever have before.

And there’s a little bit of my inner self looking at my outer self being like, how, how are you going to handle this? And, but it’s also at the same time, so cool to feel the deeper piece. Whereas a hundred percent, I can tell you if this had been me three [00:39:00] years ago, probably things would be in shambles by now already because of all the unknown, all the turbulence and the fear that comes with change.

I probably would have just like metaphorically jumped ship.

Cause it was all just too overwhelming.

Kelly Schmidt: Well, look at you go!

Leigh Ann: I know, and that’s like the fun of growth is as new things come up being like, whoa, past me would have responded very differently.

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah. And also

I think sometimes it can be sort of surprising, like I didn’t even realize I grew out of that or I didn’t notice that I, that all that work kind of really did shift something in me. I don’t know. Just a reminder that sometimes the work or the payoff of the work that we’re doing doesn’t always show up until just maybe a little bit down the road and you’re like, you’re able to look back and say, holy crap, I am a totally different person because that person would never have been able to do this.

Leigh Ann: to do this.

Uh huh. Completely. Completely. And it’s such a good feeling. So, that’s where we’re at.

Kelly Schmidt: [00:40:00] Wow. Well, you’re doing an amazing job balancing it all. You’re an inspiration and we’re excited to learn more about what you’re learning. Pass it along.

Leigh Ann: I know, I know. I kind of want to, I’m excited to share a little post here and there, probably on Instagram of just,

you

know, fun little tidbits, of how it’s going.

And I’m really excited about the research part. And what I’ll get to explore. thank you. This was so fun. I hope, I hope you guys enjoyed it, enjoyed it. Like I said, it’s for me more than anything, it’s kind of welcoming you all into this and feeling like you’re a part of it, wanting you to be a part of it.

So if you did listen to this one, thank

you so much for tuning in

and more updates to come.

Kelly Schmidt: come. Cheers.