TA. Ep 152 Grief and Growth: Personal Updates and Reflections

Leigh Ann Lindsey: [00:00:00] Hello, welcome back to the Accrescent podcast. For any who have been following the show for a bit, you’ll know we took a little bit of a break because I was in a situation of having to find another podcast editor and just not having the time to be able to do that myself. So I’m really, really excited to be back, hopefully to be able to get into the flow of consistent episodes again, with all that said.

Framing today’s conversation, today’s episode. First, I just want to start by sharing some, uh, crescent updates, changes that are going on here within my practice, some exciting personal updates too, that are going to affect the practice in some ways. And then I have my. Sweet, sweet friend, Kelly, who’s going to be joining us for this conversation to dive a little bit more into some heavier personal life updates.

And we’re going to get into some of that more with her, and that’ll be a nice back and forth conversation between her. But for now, I want to take a minute or two. To share some quick [00:01:00] logistical, exciting updates. First and foremost, I have two courses that are now available to purchase as one off courses online.

The first is my beyond the surface course on navigating chronic stress, unprocessed trauma. This was a course I taught live maybe two months ago now. So wanted to update everyone that that is now available to purchase. I also made my realign your life course available to purchase as well. This was a private course I did with my clients privately inside the uplevel lab, my online platform that I am now making available for everyone to purchase if they’re interested.

So those are both there. I’ll make sure both of those are linked in the show notes. Secondly, I am so, so excited. And if you guys follow me on Instagram, if you’re on the newsletter, you have already received these updates that I am bringing back bioenergetic testing as a service to the Crescent. And I’m not going to go into all the [00:02:00] weeds of what is bioenergetic testing.

I’ll have some links down below. Likewise in the show notes for anyone who wants to learn a little bit more. But that is coming back August 10th will be the first day appointment bookings will be available. For now, we’re just going to be doing these bioenergetic testing appointments on Saturdays, but the hope is definitely that we can expand into other days of the week and offer much, much more availability.

So check the show notes below. If you’re new to bioenergetic testing, there’ll be links where you can learn just what is it, and then also be able to see some of the sample reports of what these tests will look like, the type of information these reports will give you. Last exciting personal update is again, I’ve been sharing on social media.

A few months ago, I had applied to a PhD program in depth psychology and integrative healing, and I am so excited to announce that I was accepted into that program, which will be starting at the end of [00:03:00] September. And as of now, I’ve already made some of the shifts. I lowered my client load, the number of clients I see in a day in anticipation of this change.

So there shouldn’t be any other changes that I foresee as of this point coming into this season. But I am really, really excited to share this journey with you all through the podcast, through posts on social media of what I’m learning, the information, the journey, you know, my own emotional journey going into something so new and big and exciting.

Um, so I’m excited for you all to be along for the journey, not just to hear my experience, but then, of course, getting to share all of this super, super exciting information that I hope to be able to learn. You guys know the unconscious, the subconscious mind has been the foundation of my entire practice from the get go.

And so depth psychology is specifically the study of the unconscious mind, as well as [00:04:00] this program is going to go into depth psychology and all of these different integrative healing modalities. So it really was the perfect, perfect program for me. I still can’t quite believe it exists and I’m just ecstatic to be able.

So again, check the show notes for links on some of those different updates I just shared with that, I’m going to pivot into introducing Kelly. So Kelly, there’s so many beautiful things I could say about her, about you, Kelly actually first started the podcast Was and is a client, and it has been such a joy to get to work together and navigate and be a part of your journey.

Client turned friend, turned, um, contracted, a Crescent team member. So we are intertwined in so many different ways now, which is really, really exciting. But I wanted to ask her on today to help guide and [00:05:00] navigate this conversation because we’re going to get into a heavy topic for me personally, that I’ve been going through the last month and a half.

And. A couple of things. One, I think having that safe emotional support to dive into some of these heavier topics, but two, I also think, you know, conversations are so much more engaging versus just listening to me drone on and on, and I know she’s going to be able to have, you know, Really beautiful insight observations and, and help pull my best self out as well.

So thanks for being here.

Kelly Schmidt: what an intro. Thank you so much for, for everything from being a client all the way to working together and partnering and all this and just giving me the honor of, of hearing you. So thank you so much.

Leigh Ann Lindsey: Oh my gosh. I’m so excited. I’m so excited for you to become a part of this, this world, this space, this community in so many different ways as a participant, as a team member, as a voice. You know, I think you have, you’re such a light. You have [00:06:00] so much to share and I’m excited. For people to hear your voice

Kelly Schmidt: Oh, honored. Absolutely.

Leigh Ann Lindsey: with that said, coming into this conversation, first of all, off air, we were talking about, I’m nervous. I’m nervous to go into this in some ways. This is very, very fresh still in other ways I’ve worked through. Many aspects of this. So I don’t think I’m coming into it fully triggered with that. I might cry.

That’s definitely a possibility, but also we were kind of talking about what is the intention? Why even, why even share this? Why even share what’s going on in my life personally? And there’s really two sides of that. One is for me, it’s really important to be authentic and, um, It’s, I find it’s very hard for me to connect with.

Anyone, whether it’s my friends, my family, my social media audience, my podcast audience, if I am not being authentic myself, it just feels a little distanced. And so that is a [00:07:00] big, big part of this, of just allowing the authenticity. I think vulnerability breeds vulnerability. And then the second one is I think there’s lots of great insight and lessons to be learned in navigating times like this.

And just being able to share a bit of my journey in hopes that. That might foster more reflection on anyone else’s end who might also be going through something similar.

Kelly Schmidt: Oh

man, I, I resonate with that so much. I think there’s something really beautiful about knowing that the person you’re entrusting with your own story, um, you know firsthand that they can, can kind of connect with what you’re going through. And I, I really do think I’ve watched you, um, kind of process through some really, really Um, challenging, beautiful emotions over the last several months in a way that I think all of us who are your clients, your listeners, your fans, um, would really just love to kind of dive in with you.

So looking forward to kind of touching on that now.

Leigh Ann Lindsey: So [00:08:00] I guess the, the core of it is my husband and I have decided to separate and we at this point have been together seven years.

Seven, eight years together, probably six, you know, together, six married two and a half years. And the last couple of months have just been a lot of conversations around.

Is this aligned? It doesn’t feel aligned anymore. Can it become aligned again? And I think really what led to the separation was that ultimate conclusion of, no, we don’t think it can become aligned again. And so, um, Where to even go with all of that, right? Like the last, that ultimate decision was made pretty much in May,

June,

I moved out, I got my own space.

I think I cried every single day in June, [00:09:00] had a couple days, you know, one or two days where I actually had to cancel clients because I just could not get my shit together. And I was actually proud of myself for doing that. But I guess that’s, that’s like. The thing, here’s what’s going on. Me and my partner are separating.

There’s such a deep grief. I think that first, those first couple of weeks, there was what I could only describe as devastation, like truly not being able to wrap my head around what is actually happening right now. How did we get here? Um, and I think this the nuance of what we’re going to get into in this conversation is.

Where our minds go in super, um, pivotal, impactful times of transition, if you will, like this grief is a big topic, but, um, that’s kind of the crux of what’s going on.

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah, and grief has so many layers, doesn’t it? So we’ll probably pull back the curtain on a few [00:10:00] layers here, but you know, I’m sure this conversation could just keep going and going with the many layers of what it means to go through grief, right?

Like there’s that initial almost like blackout moment of like what, you know, where it kind of hits you like a ton of and then there are the, the confusing, You know, just like almost hallucinogenic days after where you’re like walking in a complete fog And then there’s almost like these beautiful moments that you don’t want to be beautiful Like you’re not ready to be like, oh i’m i’m seeing a little bit of like the good that could come from this You’re not ready to even face that so you kind of shut the door on those and then you know, like it just keeps kind of snowballing and snowballing and um, have you felt like You’ve Kind of run the gamut of the human emotional span the last couple of months or where are you at?

I guess even now today, where do you stand emotionally?

Leigh Ann Lindsey: [00:11:00] certainly. And this is probably what we’ll get into more. There’s, I think for each of us, there’s some of the core things that hit us first, the core fears, the core emotions. And for me, the first, first thing that hit me, first of all, I think it’s interesting to point out that there it’s such a, it was such a paradox of a time.

And also I think a little bit more of a unique situation in that both of us, him and I. On, on one hand felt this needs to end its time. And then on the other hand, both felt a little bit of, and we wish this wasn’t true. So it wasn’t, it wasn’t completely one sided where it was like, one person is all the way in, one person is all the way out.

Um, we’re both feeling a little bit of that conflict, but I think ultimately both of us knowing deep in our hearts and intuition that this is what is best and right for both of us. So in a lot of ways, it’s Incredibly amicable and there’s so much love and there’s even [00:12:00] a friendship that is still there and that exists.

But the first thought that hit me and this started, this brings up all the, how does trauma still play in my life was, okay, I’m going to be alone. And it was so interesting because the thought, the very next thought that came after that wasn’t, I’m going to be alone and I’ll be so lonely, which is, I think what maybe often is felt for me.

It was. I’m going to be alone and that is so unsafe in a very visceral way. Like I am not safe on my own. And so that was the thing that I feel like I had to workshop first.

Kelly Schmidt: Okay, so it’s such an interesting take because I agree with you. I think my first thought would be I’m going to be so lonely and isolated and I now have lost a piece of myself that I can’t get back.

I’m not almost like whole or complete on my own. And your first thought was not that. It was I [00:13:00] am so unsafe in my existence, like the world around me is inherently antagonistic and I am not safe within it. So interesting. So did you EVOX

that? And what was kind of the initial outcome or what were the learnings from that?

Leigh Ann Lindsey: I, what came up was, When him and I met in 2016, he was one of, and still is, one of the most protective people I’d ever come to in my life in such a convicted, strong way. He would just jump right in and go, you can’t treat her that way.

This isn’t okay. In a way that was more like loud and assertive than what I had been used to. And I think particularly because of the early childhood, I think sexual abuse and those things. I, that was something I so deeply yearned for at my core was like, I wish someone had been there to yell, scream, put up a fight, protect me.

And so I think that was one of the things that attracted [00:14:00] me so much to him was, oh my gosh, the depth of protection in some of those ways was so huge. And so, yeah, but what I, you know, what I ultimately came through in doing my own on that was when I first met him. I did need that external protection so deeply because I had not fostered my own internal protection.

And where I ultimately got was this realization of, I don’t even need that anymore, even though there’s a hurt there, of course. And it’s not to say that having romantic partners, friends, family, who can provide that as well, isn’t wonderful, but this realization that without this person,

I

have built and fostered that internal protection.

So actually I am safe. It is okay. If stuff comes up, I have a trust that I will do what I need to, to protect myself, or I will get the resources I need to get if I do feel ill equipped to create that [00:15:00] safety that I might be looking for.

Kelly Schmidt: think that’s such a beautiful thing about relationships too, which is, um, maybe you knowingly or unknowingly came to the relationship with that need, right?

For protection. Um, but within the relationship, you built it for yourself. And I think that is the gift of a relationship, right? Is the ability to gather the strength and the resources. And try out, test the waters a little bit on strengthening our weaknesses or maybe, um, the areas of our, you know, our healing journey that need a little bit more time and attention within a relationship.

We can really develop that so that on, even on the other side of it, you know, so difficult to talk about. Um, not that you want there to be a time on the other side of your relationship, but if it comes to that. You really gave yourself a gift while you were in it to strengthen, develop that sense of, I’ve got my own back.

He provided that space for you in a very real way, and then now here you are. [00:16:00] What a gift.

Leigh Ann Lindsey: Yeah. I think in truly, truly, truly, I would, I would not go back.

I wouldn’t take that time back. You know, I think oftentimes there’s a feeling of, did I waste that time? Wow. All that time I could have spent. Maybe finding someone else who was more aligned and 1000 percent I would not be here today. I would not be here talking on this podcast. I would not be here with the practice that I’ve built without him.

He was so pivotal in allowing some of those ambitious sides of me to come out. And I do think that’s so beautiful. He created enough of a safe space where I could go do some of this healing I needed to do. And so for that, I am forever, forever grateful and also at the same time, so grateful and proud of myself for taking that space and making good use of it to do some of this deeper healing.

So that when this day came, I wasn’t in the same place I was before,

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey: which I could have been if I didn’t [00:17:00] do some of this work, but it’s very interesting. And I think this is getting a little philosophical. Um, when, um, When it was starting to become a little bit more clear, the separation was probably going to happen for, I don’t even know why, I don’t even know why I did this, but I did a Google search on like, what are soulmates?

Kelly Schmidt: I love it.

Leigh Ann Lindsey: And literally the first article I clicked on, it was this woman talking about how she believes, and I don’t totally know how I feel about this, but at least at the time it resonated. How she believes that we can have multiple soulmates and soulmates come into our life to teach us lessons. We’re there to teach them lessons.

And sometimes once all the lessons have been learned, it’s time to separate. And there might be another soulmate with more lessons to learn. And I just have to say that hit me so deeply because in many, many ways it felt like, Whoa, that is so true. I do think I’ve learned everything I can [00:18:00] from him and vice versa.

And that might be me getting a little like whimsical with it all. But, and I think too, the hope would be that

Your ultimate

partner, you’re always, there’s always more to learn from each other.

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah, I was sort of thinking that too, um, they say that you’re married to multiple people over a lifetime, right?

If, even if it’s the same relationship, we all keep evolving, even if we don’t mean to sometimes. So, um, yeah. I do think that there can be a long term relationship. The possibilities there, right? That you could continue to learn from all the ways you allow your partner and foster growth within your relationship so that they are almost a new person teaching you new things over the years.

That’s not to say that happens in every relationship. So I think that’s a beautiful way of putting it for no matter how long the time period is, um, you kind of maybe can trust yourself to know when you’ve. Reached sort of the edge of the capacity for learning and growth. How did [00:19:00] you come to that sense here?

I think, I think this is a really important question just because I think a lot of people are in relationships, not knowing, is this right? Should I stay? Have I reached the edge of what’s right for me or my growth edge here within this relationship? How did you sort of come to the conclusion or how did the pair of you decide?

Um, and what were some of the, maybe the signs, um, that started kind of peaking in your mind? Like, ooh, something’s kind of

Leigh Ann Lindsey: maybe the signs, um, that started kind of peaking in your mind, like ooh, something’s kind amiss here? I’d say like one or two core things that we were like, this is misaligned for me. And if there is no way for this to become aligned, it’s just not going to work. And so his was more, [00:20:00] um, cultural and language.

He’s Persian. He, you know, English is a second language and a big, big one for him was really feeling like, um, now that he’s been in a relationship with a non Persian for a longer time, realizing how impactful. Um, and so in some ways, that’s, that’s hard to sit with of, man, I really wish she could have figured that out earlier.

And then at the same time, it takes me right back to, but we needed these, this time together, cause look at how much I’ve learned. I’m so grateful for how much I’ve learned. And on my end, it more had to do with the depth of emotional connection and vulnerability that was accessible in the relationship.

And honestly, I am, I’m I will always, always rather have the truth than a softening of it. And so I tend to be really direct. And I think this time around, again, being eight years in having had many, many, many, many conversations on this topic with, with shifts [00:21:00] and growth along the way, but maybe not to where I would hope it would be.

What it ultimately came down to was just like a very simple question. Hey, do you think, do you think you can get here? Are you willing to see if you could get here? Is there anything? And really the short of it being him saying, no, I don’t think I can get there. I don’t even know if that level of connection or vulnerability that you’re looking for is actually achievable or, you know, realistic.

And, and so that was the crux of it for me was great. You just made this very, very clear. If you’re telling me this core foundational thing I would like in relationship is never going to be what I would hope it could be, then I’m settling and I, I don’t, I deserve more than

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah, yeah. And I mean, man, what a brave question. It strikes me as [00:22:00] you’re talking about it, how simple it is. You know, and how we make it so much more difficult sometimes. I’ve done this, um, more times than I can count. You know, with the, with the hinting and the cajoling and the dropping. Like, here’s a book, here’s a podcast.

What do you, like, but never really directly just saying. Or even just starting a bit, um, before that and getting really clear on what my values are, you know, and taking the time out of my, my life to make sure I’m super aligned with, with what that is for myself and then being able to articulate it that simply, this is what’s important to me.

Is that important to you? And being willing to be open to what that response is. I mean, that’s a really brave

Thing to do and yet So so hard for so many of us. I mean, it’s why they write so many books Have so many podcasts about how to handle this stuff, right? But it really was that simple at the end of [00:23:00] it, wasn’t it?

Leigh Ann Lindsey: of it. In so many ways.

Yeah. It’s like, yeah, let’s not beat about the bush. Let’s just get this out there on the table. And I tend to be very quick to action in terms of once I have the information I need done, you know, I I’m going to act on it, whether it’s something in business, in relationship. And so. Truly within like two weeks of that,

Kelly Schmidt: I have found a

Leigh Ann Lindsey: place and was starting to move out and move forward.

And with that said, there’s, I think, a gentle separation that’s happening in terms of our emotional connection, the romantic relationship, transitioning that into a friendship, which probably that could be a whole other episode. Um, so it’s not, it’s not necessarily like a cut and now I’m never going to speak to you again.

It’s over.

Kelly Schmidt: which I think is, makes it so much more, um, just, yeah, yeah, I do. I do think that that is, I mean, There is a good reason why people go into a such a spiral when these [00:24:00] things when it goes from like one day We were living our lives together and the next day we weren’t that is I mean very difficult from even just like a deeper like a cellular level So yeah to be going about it this way.

I mean what a gift for both of you It’s not always possible. But in your case, it definitely has been and it was right.

Leigh Ann Lindsey: Yeah. Yeah. And I think just coming back to what we’re more, cause I did, you know, I, I went back and forth on, am I, am I not giving this enough of a go? Am I giving up on my marriage? Am I, in so many ways, I do think that there probably, in so many ways, it was such a great relationship. We laughed a lot. We were foodies and would try new restaurants. We would travel. We watched soccer together.

In so many, but it was more of a companionship and not that there’s anything wrong with that. That’s just not necessarily what I’m looking for. I’m looking for something a little more than companionship, [00:25:00] but in some ways I did start to get in my head of like, Leanne, so many people would be so thrilled to have this relationship. And you start to second guess yourself. Like, am I, am I asking for too much? Am I Making up some la la fantasy of what a relationship could be. And I think ultimately I was able to have peace with like, and this is actually what I said to him almost verbatim. Even if what I’m looking for doesn’t exist, I would rather be alone.

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey: I would rather be alone than in companionship because I don’t need the companionship. Um, And so I would rather be alone than settle for something that isn’t fully aligned. My entire life I would rather be alone than settle for something that’s not fully aligned. And again, that also I think helped give me more clarity of

if I would stay, why would I be staying?

It would just be for the companionship.

Kelly Schmidt: Sure. Which, I mean, isn’t wrong. There’s obviously a rich [00:26:00] friendship there. So, you know, who could judge that, um, by any means?

But, you know, I think I’ve, I’ve felt this myself, um, across my relationship history as well. And I think At times I’ve laid awake at night and thought, I wish I could just be okay. With it as it is. I wish I didn’t have this longing for something more connected, um, and deeper and more authentic, and I wish I didn’t feel like that was the most important thing. And I think if I didn’t, I could have settled happily into plenty of relationships with lovely people. Um, And yet that has left me constantly pursuing, or at least stepping back to say, this wasn’t quite it. How do you feel about the possibility of spending time in your life on your own? Or potentially, I don’t [00:27:00] know, I mean, I’m obviously, I’m not married, so I don’t know if it’s po Is it possible?

Is what we’re looking for possible? Tell

Leigh Ann Lindsey: possible?

Well, first of all, I do believe it’s possible. In some ways, again, getting a little like woo woo. In some ways I feel like if there is a yearning or a dreaming for it, it’s because it exists.

Kelly Schmidt: Oh man, I feel like we should just pause there. Cause I feel like that applies to so many other things, even outside our relationships.

Yes. What a beautiful thought. If the yearning is in you, it’s possible. Yeah. Okay. Everyone go

Leigh Ann Lindsey: to that question. Like,

Kelly Schmidt: All right. Keep going.

Leigh Ann Lindsey: a yearning, right? you do

believe

Kelly Schmidt: Well, so I just think that that’s a bit like, so if you have the yearning, it exists, right? So you do believe it is that, that there isn’t, you’re not necessarily saying, and now I’m committing to a lifetime of, of living alone in my apartment.

You’re saying, I do believe it’s possible.

Leigh Ann Lindsey: Yeah, yeah, and, and should it come [00:28:00] across my doorstep, should it bump into me a coffee shop on the, awesome, you know, hopefully not anytime soon because there’s no, no way I’m ready for any of that, but, but yeah, that kind of, I do believe it exists and at the same time, if I don’t find that or come across it,

I

don’t want to just settle in a partnership just to have a partnership.

I feel, I feel pretty confidently and I have a lot of peace on my own. Um, with that said, it is kind of funny because this week, very, very specifically this week, I think I felt the, to your point of like the layers with grief, each week, something new has come up to work through and sit with and observe.

This week, I think I really felt. The absence of the companionship of, wow, I kind of being such an introvert. Um, my first thought is always like, what am I going to [00:29:00] do alone this weekend? And, and even with him, when we were married, living together in the same home, there was so much quiet time where we’d be in the same room, but just doing our own thing.

And I think not having that anymore. I did sort of underestimate how.

Soothing it can be to just have another human in your physical orbit.

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah.

Especially a calm one that you trust and whose presence, you know, you, you don’t owe them any kind of entertainment or input, you know, I think that’s such a, a gift.

So yeah, you’ve had that. And now to go without, you haven’t mentioned this before though, literally

Leigh Ann Lindsey: up literally this week.

was the first time it kind of hit. Cause I was, I think I was like, Maybe it was even on a Saturday or something. Just, you know, in my space alone doing something and just feeling a little bit of a A niggling at like, Oh, it would just kind of be nice to have another human [00:30:00] in this room right now.

And that kind of made me go, Oh yeah, he did. You know, we did provide that for each other in some capacity, but at the same time, even over these last few weeks before that specific realization came up, really prioritizing calls with friends, get togethers with friends, time with family to lessen the depth of that.

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah. Um, I resonate with a lot of this simply having gone through my own, uh, split from a long term partner earlier this year. And I think something I have found, um, that sort of surprised me was that I’m every part of my day is oriented around myself now. And that seems it’s felt sort of foreign. Um, at first when I was fresh out of the relationship, it felt very uncomfortable, but now I’m sort of starting to feel like, [00:31:00] Oh man, I don’t know how I could ever go back to orienting my life around anyone else’s needs.

Um, and that scares me a little bit, um, for myself. Not, I, I really don’t. I mean, I don’t think of myself as like a self centered or selfish person, but there is some really beautiful things to be kind of gleaned and just the supportive nature of, of, like I said, having every single moment of your day, a moment that you get to craft for your own wellbeing.

Um, I haven’t felt like that in a long time. It’s been a beautiful gift, but how do I go back?

Leigh Ann Lindsey: well being.

Kelly Schmidt: you thought through that at all?

Leigh Ann Lindsey: beautiful gift, but how do I go back?

So like I said, gone through that at all?

Being on my own, I get to decide [00:32:00] every aspect, pretty much every aspect of my life, how I want to decorate this, when I want to eat, where I want to go to eat, what I want to do this weekend. And for sure the feeling was, Oh my God, is partnership even worth it to have to compromise on so many things? And with that said, the funny thing that came up this week and sort of realizing the difference in the companionship was there was a thought that went through my mind of, you know what?

At some point it might be worth it to have some compromises to have that, that connection. But again, like that is kind of what takes us right back to, what are the compromises that are worth it? And what am I getting? Almost like, this isn’t exactly how I would want to word it, but it’s almost like, what is the cost?

And then what is the thing I am purchasing with that cost?

Kelly Schmidt: man, yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey: And I think in some ways kind of bringing it back to why we separated, what I realized was, here’s the cost each of us is [00:33:00] paying, but here’s the cost I’m paying. And what I am getting back for that cost is not worth it anymore.

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah.

Leigh Ann Lindsey: Um, so yeah, but it is funny kind of how quick, you know, how this week in particular going, wow, just to have another presence, just to have someone to, you know, I don’t know, spitball things with and energy in the room.

I was very surprised because I truly was like where you were at, where I’m like, I don’t know that I’ll ever, ever want to make a single compromise again in relationship, but who knows, you know, in another month I could say I’m right back there. Yeah.

Kelly Schmidt: I think maybe that’s just kind of the initial. I think potentially that’s another layer of the grief, right? It’s just like you miss the relationship. You might miss this person deeply.

Um, and yet knowing that maybe you neglected yourself a bit. Um, I think anyone can do it. I think we often see women doing it in relationship where just the prioritizing what’s what’s maybe best for you so that you truly can have a full cup to pour [00:34:00] from kind of falls by the wayside. So it’s been a real reminder to myself that, um, I am my own.

Best friend and cheerleader and nobody is going to take care of me like I am. And it’s truly nobody’s responsibility, um, but my own. And that doesn’t feel like a sentence or like a, a judgment on myself. It just feels like, yeah, that’s, that’s the opportunity. And I would hope to bring that, um, as I move forward.

But yeah, I do think that potentially there’s just this. Maybe if there’s been a lack of that self priority, prioritization at times, um, that maybe as you move forward, you give yourself enough of that, you get into a rhythm of, of seeing the self and honoring what it’s asking for. And then you start to say, Oh, I’ve got a little bit of capacity.

What, who do I want to add into this? Or maybe I’m ready to do that again. I think that’s entirely possible. I’m just

Leigh Ann Lindsey: Yeah, I think what are the parts of me [00:35:00] that want to be honored and want to be allowed to come out? I think, you know, it’s in, in so many ways, there was so much freedom in the relationship of, I can, I can pretty much do what I want, go where I want, see who I want. But particularly when it came to that emotional availability, vulnerability, depth of connection in trying for so many years to foster what I was looking for, what, what did I end up doing?

I think this is what so much of us end up doing. That part of me, I just started to quiet her and quiet her and quiet her. And that was the disservice to myself. It wasn’t so much like, Oh, and I couldn’t, you know, I couldn’t do my self care because of him, you know, stuff like that. Or, or eat the food I wanted to eat because of him.

It was more just like this incredibly core foundational part of me, um, got kicked to the back of the

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah, which I feel like takes us back [00:36:00] to making sure you get quiet enough and intentional enough to reflect with yourself on what your core values are.

I just, I think a lot of the people around me who I see dealing with this, like, should we stay? Should we go? Question is just a lack of clarity on, on what is a core value to

Leigh Ann Lindsey: to them. Yeah. And to kind of come back to that, Cost benefit, you know, the benefit one, you know, and there were many, there were many, I want to be really clear.

Like he’s one of the most selfless, generous, kind people ever in, in terms of this specific piece, we’re talking about the, one of the benefits I was receiving was companionship. The cost was this core piece of myself that couldn’t come out and couldn’t be expressed.

Again, kind of ultimately going, oh, that’s too high a price to pay for this, for

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah.

Although that takes guts to come to that conclusion.

Yeah,

Leigh Ann Lindsey: [00:37:00] Yeah. Yeah. You know, when you were talking before of, um, it’s, you see this, you, you’ve experienced this yourself

Kelly Schmidt: Mm-Hmm.

Leigh Ann Lindsey: I’m yearning for more. Does it exist? But realizing both are hard. I think sometimes we go. It’ll be so hard to be on my own, um, what if I never find what I’m looking for?

But the reality is staying in a misaligned relationship

is

Kelly Schmidt: in a misaligned relationship is really hard. But that is a suck on our life force truly

so,

you know, I think then you see people getting to the end of relationships and they’re exhausted and they’re burned out And that’s what leads them to draw a line in the sand. There’s nothing wrong with that.

I think [00:38:00] that’s a very human experience

Leigh Ann Lindsey: human

Kelly Schmidt: but

yeah, I think it would be Obviously, it would be better if we could all maybe be willing to kind of call a spade a spade and say, the cost benefit, what is this costing me and is it the cost I’m willing to live with? So you know, as you look forward, um, or maybe as you’ve just been processing lately, do you feel like, okay, I’ve settled into this.

Um, we’re settling into this decision. Are you feeling at peace or where are you kind of looking ahead to in terms of, you know, even walking into a new phase of grief? Like what might that look

Leigh Ann Lindsey: like? what might that look like? Yeah. Well, two quick things.

One, I want to speak to that last piece. Two, I, I would love to hear from you and maybe we can do a little back and forth on uh, Like that first phase of grief, like the devastation, how you got through that. And maybe I can speak to how that was for me and some of the things I found helpful, but one thing I do just feel quickly [00:39:00] I should add is it’s not like we were together eight years, all of a sudden within two months, we were like, Hey, it’s misaligned.

We’re done. We’re out again. Kind of that reiteration of we’ve been spending eight years coming back and coming back and coming back to these topics. with some semblance of growth. And so it really has been like, Hey, we’ve talked about this so much. We’ve done, we’ve done some things to shift this. Do you think it’s going to shift more?

And also going, if the answer’s no, that’s pretty clear, but also it’s not like if we’ve been trying at this for eight years and it still hasn’t gotten where we’d want it to go or where I would, I would like it, I also think that’s a pretty big answer to that.

Is another eight years gonna do it? Probably not.

Kelly Schmidt: Probably not. Well, I think that’s the question, right? You know, I think it’s one you would wrestle with. It’s like, I think there’s a human nature. Or a drive within us that says, I want to keep [00:40:00] hoping, I care about this person, I want to hope that next year, with this next effort, with more time or more compassion, whatever the case may be, something could change.

And I think that sometimes we shame ourselves after a relationship ends, like, why did I keep trying? Why did I keep pouring myself into this? But I don’t think that’s anything new. It’s not something to necessarily be ashamed about. I think, um, it’s a beautiful thing to keep trying and hoping in somebody when it’s, you know, when, when it’s right.

And, and there are good people to good people in a relationship. I think it’s, um, it’s a way we honor each other by saying, I have hope for this. Um, and yet I think it is sometimes very difficult and yet very necessary to say, and this is where I draw the line and everyone’s line is very personal. To them and I think it’s a respect we owe each other as we talk through the endings of relationships Somebody’s line your line might be different than mine, right?

You are your limit for this is my limit to [00:41:00] try Is going to be different than anyone else’s and it’s it’s nobody’s decision But your own really in the two people in that relationship

Leigh Ann Lindsey: Yeah, and I think too, it gives me so much gratitude actually for him and his um, willingness to be forthright because I asked a very pointed question and he gave me an honest answer.

And I think sometimes what does happen in relationships because we don’t want it to end is someone might say, Hey, this is a deal breaker for me. You know, is this aligned for you? And because they don’t want it to end, they just say, yeah, of course, of course I can work on that. We’ll get better. And when in reality, it’s, there’s a big difference between, I see what you’re asking for and over time, I now have come to value that too.

And I actually want to become an embody that as well. Versus, you know, it’s not within my values. It’s not aligned for me. I’m just going to do it for you.

Kelly Schmidt: Is that like a [00:42:00] gut sense, you think? You know, like how can someone kind of assess? Because we’re really trusting, right? The words of the other person. We’re trusting that they know themselves. That they, you know.

You know, ’cause I, I don’t necessarily think that people on the other end are being dishonest. I think most of the time probably they’re saying, I don’t know if I can do it. They’re thinking, but I, I hope I can, I want to, I don’t wanna lose this person and I wanna try to make it happen. Um, how can somebody kind of suss that

Leigh Ann Lindsey: I feel like the proof is in the pudding a little bit where, where, yeah, just over time, you know, for example, with him and I, in 2020, we had a big rupture where we separated for a time because of this same issue. Um, and he did a ton of work to, to, to, to, to, to, to, to. He’ll grow, learn about himself, learn tools of communication and all these different things.

And I also did my own work because I brought my own shit to that first part of the relationship and so much changed, [00:43:00] which is what ultimately brought us back together of, wow, okay, yes, you do, you do see the value in this. You, you can

embody all these things. And then what I mean by the proof is in the pudding is the last, you know, year and a half or so there’s been some reverting back to.

That old self, those old patterns. And I think ultimately what I deduced from that was, okay, you, you didn’t make those changes because to your core, you really believed that was who you wanted to be, and that was maybe a more connected way to live. You made those changes to get me back. And when that happens, it’s just not sustainable.

It’s just not versus I think when we make those changes, cause there really is something in me that is like. Wow, I see the value in this. I want to pursue this. That is sustainable, versus if you make the change just to appease them or to keep them, you’re only going to be able to put on that act for so long.

Kelly Schmidt: for so long.

Do you think he would [00:44:00] say the same thing? Like, I did this. To get her back and it just ultimately wasn’t something I could sustain

Leigh Ann Lindsey: I think so. I think in some ways, again, I think in some ways he might say, Um, I grew so much and the level of this that you’re looking for, it doesn’t exist.

Kelly Schmidt: Right.

Leigh Ann Lindsey: And again, like that was just where it’s like, you know what, ultimately, because we’ve had so many conversations of me trying to convince him otherwise also ultimately just coming to peace with, you know what, I, I disagree, but I’m also done trying to convince you.

Kelly Schmidt: yeah, oh man, that makes perfect sense to me.

Leigh Ann Lindsey: So proof is in the pudding, which is hard, which is really hard to sit

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah, it is.

Leigh Ann Lindsey: Okay, Again, there’s a million places we could go with this, but I think because this was, obviously we’ve all had a lot of grief in life in different capacities, but I think this was the biggest grief thing I’ve experienced outside of like that early childhood abuse, you know,[00:45:00]

Kelly Schmidt: Right.

Leigh Ann Lindsey: the, the biggest thing.

So it really rocked me how devastating it was, how all encompassing it was, how there were days that I. Could not stop the tears from rolling down my

Kelly Schmidt: my face,

Leigh Ann Lindsey: which in some ways was very jarring because I do this emotional work every day. And for the most part, if I feel a little bit turbulent, I can re regulate and ground myself back in pretty quickly.

Um, so it did rock me. I was like, holy shit, this is wow. This is really, I’m, I’m out there.

Kelly Schmidt: taken aback sometimes by how intense it felt for you.

Leigh Ann Lindsey: Yeah, um, did you experience some of that and how, how do you get through some of those early phases of just being so rocked? So devastated. So I would even say I, I was like, Just confused, you know, truly of what is happening, what is [00:46:00] life, where am I going? Again, how did we get here? It just like such a, my head is spinning.

I am floating away in the clouds. How can I bring myself? How can I bring my two feet back on the

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, wow, I wish there was like a magic pill for those early weeks of, of grief. I’m sure it would be over prescribed for everyone in the world,

Leigh Ann Lindsey: is

Kelly Schmidt: um, because truly the end of a relationship is just one of those, um, universal worst feelings ever.

Um, I think, you know, this, this breakup was unique for me simply because, um, it was, Well, maybe the third time we had broken up, um, and I would say the first two were almost more devastating in that I was like more hysterical, [00:47:00] um, in them, like the grief felt beyond what I could, um, kind of manage. And I would say in, in large part, that was, um, because of some, probably some of my other life circumstances.

So I think that’s an interesting, um, Kind of topic to add in here is that at the time I think we were like really deep into the pandemic and I felt very isolated and I wasn’t working and I think the thing about grief is that it’s It really does require at times an audience like we really do need each other to hold space in that I don’t think it’s an emotion.

That’s should be felt 100 percent on its own because I think grief for the beautiful gifts that can bring and the truth also can bring a lot of lies about ourselves

And,

maybe our partners or the truth about what’s ahead for us or what we left behind. [00:48:00] Um, and so I think in those kind of early breakups, it was, I was just.

not in a place where I had enough support around me.

Leigh Ann Lindsey: around me.

Mhm.

Kelly Schmidt: This last time around, I think I felt more resigned, um, more empowered to just make a decision for myself to not,

to no

longer strive to fit a slightly square peg into a kind of round hole, you know, um, and to just accept what was, cause again, a wonderful person who I respect and love immensely.

And yet, um, you know, I think when When you are asking the question, can you show up, um, and kind of meet me at a core level that is super important to me, and they’re saying, I’m sorry, I can’t. It is the most honoring and devastating thing to say, okay.

Leigh Ann Lindsey: Yeah.

Kelly Schmidt: I think after we had that conversation and [00:49:00] I just said, okay, and, and we kind of sat in the like hugeness of that and then kind of went our separate ways.

I think in the days after that, um, I swiftly reached out to, um, To my

Leigh Ann Lindsey: because I,

Kelly Schmidt: um, because I, and we’ve talked about this before. Sometimes I think I’ve had a tendency to want to like win at grieving or at sadness. Like I’m going to get a gold star. I’m going to do it. All right. I’m going to put all of my tools in play and I’m going to move through this and I’m just going to like get an a plus at the end.

Um,

Leigh Ann Lindsey: eight, all eight phases in order. Yes.

Kelly Schmidt: did it in a certain timeline and emerged like a phoenix on the other side. So, um, and wow, I really wish that was, um, yeah, more possible, but I did kind of jump into that mode. I don’t think that was necessarily a bad idea. I think those early days, like I said, the [00:50:00] beginning are, are just like an absolute fog.

You know, you are, you are lost in In like so much, and I think even like I said earlier as well, like a cellular level, like your physical body is like, wait, wait, what? I’m sorry. This is where do not compute. Um, and I think that

it’s just, um, it’s a period where, like you experienced this, I’m sure as well, minute to minute things change.

You know, it’s like the weather is constantly shifting in your home and, um, and so I really needed, I think, kind of the steadiness of some people around me, um, who I reached out to and didn’t try to act like it wasn’t a big deal, you know, it didn’t show up like, Oh, well, oh, yeah, well, we broke up, just truly said, I am not okay.

And I’m going to need. X, Y, and Z. Um, and I [00:51:00] think, you know, really trying to jump into

the deep

end, you know, like I, I really tried not to fight it this time.

Um,

I think that was a new experience. Um, I think the tendency to want to numb away overwhelming emotions is also universal. And I wonder if you felt like that too.

Like some, sometimes he’s like, sweeping you away feelings, you, you’re just like, please somebody do anything to calm this storm. And yet I really tried to put in a real effort to

still in

Leigh Ann Lindsey: still in

Kelly Schmidt: Um, did you experience that

Leigh Ann Lindsey: Yeah. And I feel like what I hear there is

something I talk about so often in sessions, right? There’s knowing it, knowing what I feel, and then there’s feeling what I feel. And sometimes we just have to go.

This is how I feel. I’m not going to try and change it [00:52:00] just yet. I’m not going to try and expand it or get rid of it just yet or release it.

I’m

just going to observe it and feel it and witness it.

And in fact, sometimes doing that is what allows it to move through so much

quicker.

Kelly Schmidt: fact, sometimes doing that is what allows it to move through so much quicker.

You know, those like early days as well nights, I should say rather where you’re just, you cannot sleep. You are all jitters. You are just everything that looks worse at night. We all know that, right? Like the world always seems like it’s collapsing at nighttime. So extra in that scenario. And, um, just laying there awake thinking like I hate everything about this and just letting that be what it was, um, was so difficult, um, for sure.

But, but I think I do feel looking back [00:53:00] that it helped me move forward into, um, new phases of like, okay, I’m not loving this, but I am not in pure misery 24

Leigh Ann Lindsey: and

Kelly Schmidt: And then moving out of that into, oh, there is a bright spot in my day and I don’t have to, you know, hate that. Or it doesn’t mean that I didn’t love them and the relationship was a sham.

Leigh Ann Lindsey: Yeah, yeah.

Kelly Schmidt: Um, and so you kind of move into these like new phases where maybe you see a little bit of the light at the end of the tunnel. Um, and. And that is so funny because as much as there are moments where you see the light, you in other moments will turn around and just look back at the darkness again. Um, and I tried to just allow that to be

reorient myself to like, that’s normal.

That is normal. I think that is normal. [00:54:00] Actually, my best friend was very, um. Like she brought that truth back to me a lot. Like that is normal. There is not like a here you

Leigh Ann Lindsey: you’re in the tunnel or

Kelly Schmidt: Yes, right. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so I think those were the the early weeks

Leigh Ann Lindsey: it’s making me think of two things that I feel like were very helpful for me.

One was, what I noticed is, I, I would get sad about everything else. Oh, work, it’s, it’s just so much, it’s too, oh, my friendships, this or that. And I really had to pull back and go. Actually, that is, that is the sadness from this thing over here, getting extrapolated and spilled onto everything else and needing to just pull myself back and go, no, no, no, literally everything else going on in my life right now is amazing.

Best it’s ever been. [00:55:00] In fact, so I can allow this sadness to just stay here where it belongs. Same thing. It’s like, The feeling of this painful thing is happening in this place of my life. Therefore, my entire life is covered in a rain cloud versus, Oh no, it’s just, it’s just this one section that has the rain cloud.

And sometimes I’ve got to go sit in the rain, but also I can walk out of it over into this sunny spot and be here and enjoy that too. My whole life isn’t this, but I do think there’s something, I don’t know if it’s like The neurobiology of the brain that often wants to extrapolate things onto everything.

I’m sad about this and, and I’m sad about work and I’m sad about my friendships. And so that was helpful for me to be able to go, cause I would start to feel like, what, what is going on? Why am I feeling so sad about work? That doesn’t make sense to me. And then in puzzling through it a little bit more realizing, actually, I’m not sad about work at all.

That is just like a spillover.[00:56:00]

Kelly Schmidt: Well, your limiting beliefs kind of come out of the woodwork in grief. They’re like, it’s like all of them are like, hey, and also, and this and that.

And I think, you know, relationship ending is a significant grief that tends to, it’s like. It’s like the king of grief that’s like, come on over all of our grief friends, everything you’ve ever felt sad about all of your, you know, um, and then suddenly your house is full of all of the, the loss and the sadness that you feel like you’ve ever held, which.

You’d probably say is, you know, maybe some loss and grief and sadness about things that we need, like, need to process, need to let move through us. So in a, in a way, it’s, it’s kind of a gateway drug to like the rest of what we need to be addressing. Um, so I do think that these are really tumultuous times are huge times, and I think we talked about this a little bit.

Um, I really felt like I needed to dip in and out of

Leigh Ann Lindsey: Yeah, yeah.

Kelly Schmidt: Like no, I couldn’t [00:57:00] just stay there. With, you know, the sadness and all his friends of, of everything I’d ever

felt Until it was gone forever. I wanted to because I just wanted it to get out of there, scram, as quickly as possible. Um, and I felt like, well, if I dip in and out, it will prolong my grief and I’ll be in this season for longer and I won’t get to the next part of my life more quickly.

Um, and I really feel like that was not true. I do think that being able to have a job to focus on where I put the grief aside for a little bit, thankfully, or grabbed a coffee or dinner with a friend, and maybe we didn’t really talk about what was going on with me. We talked about that, like it, those were little buffers that allowed me to jump back into grief with new capacity.

Do you feel like that was a similar

Leigh Ann Lindsey: 100%, and I think this was super pivotal for me because, because of the work I do. I am [00:58:00] super aware of what am I, what are my soothes, what am I using to soothe myself in this moment? And I did for maybe a week, wrestle with I could feel myself wanting to soothe with tv, soothe with ice cream, soothe with, I don’t know, a really nice meal at my favorite restaurant. And for about a week, I kind of wrestled with trying to not let myself do that. Like, no, no, no. You need to sit in this. You need to feel it. Don’t distract. Don’t soothe. And, and ultimately what I came to was no, no, no. To your point, this is a marathon. If we try and treat it like a sprint, we’re going to kill ourselves, um, metaphorically, you know, emotionally,

Kelly Schmidt: and physically.

Leigh Ann Lindsey: Not literally, um, and the way that I kind of phrased it to myself in the conclusion I came to is to be able to get through this there’s gonna be a lot of heavy lifting I need to do of processing and working through it and What is gonna enable me to [00:59:00] do that heavy lifting? It’s Taking these timeouts taking these halftime breaks to Nourish myself in some ways that are truly nourishing to my body with good food and hydration and sleep and movement and sunshine, but then also just like soothe my frazzled soul with TV and ice cream.

And I watched so much damn TV in

Kelly Schmidt: shows.

Leigh Ann Lindsey: I ate so much ice cream in June. And, but I think, you know, a big difference is truly there was, there was an intention behind it of. I know I’m about to eat this bowl of ice cream right now because it’s going to be so soothing. Great! Let me do that. But also an awareness and a discernment around, and I know that this is okay because I am going to go do that heavy lifting later.

With, you know, my own EVOX sessions and my journaling and my meditation time, we need those respites to be able to [01:00:00] do the processing and the work. But I think, I think where soothers become a problem is when, first of all, either they’re super detrimental, you know, things more like smoking or alcohol or some of the stuff like that, or we’re just soothing, soothing, soothing.

We’re never then going to do that solving

Kelly Schmidt: right? Right. Yeah. And I think, you know, I think maybe for those of us who are You know, the path of healing and working through our, you know, maybe our traumas, our baggage, the soothing has become sort of like a no no, right?

Like, you don’t get to do that. You must keep going on the rocky, Challenging path forward, you know, like almost like we have to have a hard time. Like it must be difficult in order for it to be valuable or for it to be real healing work. Right.

Leigh Ann Lindsey: to validate our pain, like.

If I heal too quickly, it must not have hurt that bad.

Kelly Schmidt: And then what does that say about the relationship or the [01:01:00] loss or whatever the case may be?

So yeah, I fully, I vibe with that.

Leigh Ann Lindsey: Oh my gosh. This was so good. I feel like, you know, so many other places we could go, which will always be the case, but I think this was a good starting point.

Kelly Schmidt: thanks for sharing with

Leigh Ann Lindsey: Oh my gosh. Thank you for helping me facilitate this. I, this was so good. One million times better with you here than it would have been on my own.

Kelly Schmidt: Honored. Happy to.

Leigh Ann Lindsey: Um, so thank, thank you for holding space and creating space for me. And thank you to the audience for holding space. Um, yeah,

Kelly Schmidt: More to come, I’m

Leigh Ann Lindsey: more to come. Yeah. I think it’ll be fun. We kind of have some of these planned, these conversations between you and I, just to, whether it’s talking about. My life, our life, things we’re going through or just themes I’m seeing, but being able to pair it back and forth in a more intimate.

And also I think in some ways, less structured conversations than what some of my guest interviews are that are very, very refined and much more structured. It’s kind of fun to [01:02:00] get to sit down and see wherever it leads

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah, yeah. Can’t wait.

Leigh Ann Lindsey: Love it. Okay.