TA Podcast Ep. 159 Leigh Ann & Kelly: Are You Over-Analyzing to Avoid Action?

Leigh Ann: [00:00:00] Okay, well we are back, Kelly and I, to chat through some different themes, some different things that I feel like Maybe I’ve been seeing a little bit more recently in client work, but also have definitely been coming to terms with myself and Kelly. So great. I’ve kind of recruited her to help me, um, navigate and kind of break down some of these concepts.

I know I used to do a lot of solo episodes, but I think it’s just so much more engaging and fun to have someone to kind of bounce things off of and add that input and, and also ask the questions that the audience might be. I’ve

Kelly Schmidt: So true, yeah, I’m here to ask them all, and I’ve got a few already,

brewing.

Leigh Ann: few already. What am I doing?

the

puzzling, the [00:01:00] connecting of the dots. And yet what I often see in clients and myself is sometimes we can get a little, we can over index on the processing and not necessarily be doing enough when it comes to actually taking action. In our life. And, and again, like this is what we’re going to break down.

There’s so much I already, I could say about this. Some people might say me, me doing the work, me doing the Evox, doing the meditations, doing the coaching. That is the action. And in some ways, yes, absolutely. That can certainly be a starting point. But I think the ultimate, ultimate question is. Most people, when they’re coming to me, when they’re coming to any kind of emotional healing work is something is misaligned in my life. Something is misaligned. Sometimes multiple somethings are misaligned and there is action. We need to take externally and internally. [00:02:00] To be able to create more alignment. And I think going and getting support in doing that is definitely a first step, but then like the support we’re getting from those people or those modalities has to then be integrated into our actual life. Initial thoughts. I

Kelly Schmidt: So many initial thoughts. Um, yeah, I mean, I think it resonates for me, too, right now.

And I think probably for, for a lot of people listening, I think we can all think on, even if it’s just, It’s maybe not right now, a time in our lives where we just knew there was some action necessary and, um, there’s, you know, there’s so much that can hold us back, uh, from taking that initially. But I think maybe that’s a good place to start is, is just kind of the knowing, like, is that.

Is that the nudge, you know, like we’re doing all of this work and you’re starting to feel a measure of maybe new, new peace or new clarity and you start to get this [00:03:00] little feeling of like, and now what do I need to do? Do you feel like that’s kind of how, you know, maybe action is the right next step.

Leigh Ann: So again, nuance here. My, there’s always going to be, there’s almost always going to be action we need to take again, whether it’s action with myself, like I need to change my habits. I need to change my routines, my thought processes, or action with someone or something else in our life. I need to set a boundary.

I need to limit the amount of time I’m around that person. I need to change careers, whatever some of those things might be. I’m always going to be trying to get us to take those steps as soon as

Kelly Schmidt: Sure.

Leigh Ann: Because ultimately that is what is going to be addressing some of the root cause of the turbulence we’re experiencing.

With that said, it’s not about like running straight into the fire or necessarily jumping off the cliff. But [00:04:00] I do also, again, like this is where so much of that nuance comes in, is at the same time, like, yeah, we don’t want to white knuckle it and force ourselves to do all these things. A lot of what I’m doing with Evox is, um, What are those deeper fears preventing me from taking the action so that we can clear those out and taking the action feels so much safer.

We have so much

Kelly Schmidt: more

Leigh Ann: peace, calm, clarity, confidence to do that and at the same time. The first time we do anything new, there is going to be some trepidation, some nervousness, maybe even some slight dysregulation around that. And so if we’re waiting for the day where it’s like, Ooh, that conversation with my boss, if we’re waiting for the day when you’re like, no, I have no fear at all doing that, that might not necessarily be what we’re looking for.

It’s kind of like, we do want to create some peace and confidence.

We also need to push the bounds of what feels safe and comfortable in order to show ourself that we can [00:05:00] do that and make it through it.

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah. So would you be a proponent then of people taking maybe some of the initial first action steps with ourselves? Like that’s the safest place to start right in my mind is like I can change my mindset.

I can decide to you know show up and with gratitude on the daily or just kind of shift how I View my outlook on what life would look like if I were to make some of these changes You That seems like a safer place to begin.

part

Leigh Ann: action.

I always suggest that action, that internal action, the internal shifts and changes, because first of all, that we have 100 percent control over versus trying to shift dynamics with people in our lives. Some of these things, first of all, we don’t have full control over how they respond to our requests or our boundaries isn’t in our control.

And also some of the other shifts we want to make might be things that can take a little bit of time, but [00:06:00] those, those external shifts can be so scary and big and have really big implications. Like. Ending a marriage, ending a relationship that’s no longer aligned. And here’s the reality. If you yourself and you are not like in a trusting relationship, those external steps are going to be so hard to take, which is why I tend to say, let’s get your relationship with yourself on a firm, trusting basis.

safe foundation.

That way, when we do try to go make some of these external changes, the foundation is so much more solid. And if it doesn’t go totally according to plan, if it doesn’t go super smoothly, you’re not just like rocked to your core.

Kelly Schmidt: right? You know, you have a home within yourself. I think that’s a brilliant call out because I think it’s just so much easier to, um, just like kind of stick with it, right?

Like [00:07:00] there’s just a sense of me that, that knows if I’m not totally aligned with me, as you’re saying, I might crumble. I might not be able to go through with it to the extent that I’m really hoping to make a change or hoping to make or nurture a shift with somebody else.

Leigh Ann: Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent.

It gives us that, again, like that firmer foundation to go off of. But also, I find, you know, I, I talk a lot about inner self, outer self, and, you know, if the outer self is coming to us, the inner self being like, Hey, so I know I’ve kind of neglected you for 20 years and like, haven’t really treated you well, but could you go set a bond, a boundary with our boss, the inner self is almost going to be like, what the fuck?

Kelly Schmidt: Like, who are you?

Leigh Ann: Yeah. Who are you to make a request of me? You’ve been ignoring me, neglecting me, ignoring my nudges. So again, I just think, is it. Is it impossible to make external changes without that relationship first with ourself? [00:08:00] No, not necessarily. I do think we still can, but I think it’s going to be so much more easier, so much less dysregulating and anxiety inducing if we have that strong relationship with ourself.

Kelly Schmidt: Okay, but to your point, I think part of doing the work is establishing that relationship with ourselves and establishing the self trust. But then there’s that nudge, right? Like, I think I could get lost there forever.

Reintegrating with myself all the time, just constantly trying to come home to myself and make sure that I’m totally aligned. And am I really aligned today? Do I have what it takes? And not being quite sure and wanting to do a little bit more work. You know, there’s just a constant, um, there’s always more work to be done, right?

So in my head, it’s like, it’s almost never a good time.

Leigh Ann: right now,

Kelly Schmidt: I’m thinking right now, you know, I just don’t think there will ever be a good time to take that leap. Do you, do you run into that thought process?

Leigh Ann: Yeah, I, so I am so guilty of this, first of all, myself, because to your [00:09:00] point, there will always be another layer we can pull back, another insight from childhood we can obtain. Oh yeah, this thing happened that created this belief in me and that’s why I do this. And again, that’s important.

That’s impactful. But we can at some point dwell in that place a little too long where it’s like, okay. I’m almost using the self analyzing and the puzzling as like a scapegoat for why I don’t, or I’m not quite ready yet, or I can’t yet go make some of those external

Kelly Schmidt: or the outcome could be better if I just do a little bit more Then maybe I can secure the outcome that i’m secretly hoping for but not admitting to myself perhaps

Leigh Ann: yeah, I think it’s one of those things where I have a pretty good touch on this when I’m in one on one work. But yeah, when it’s like I, Truly, like within a few weeks, I think we should be starting to make some of these external things. And they can, again, we start with [00:10:00] the least aggressive, invasive things, right?

It’s not like, Within a few weeks of working with me, you should be leaving your husband. No, no, no, no. That’s not what I’m saying, but maybe within a few weeks, we’ve got you yourself and you in a better place. What is like the first conversation I need to have with my partner to try and create more alignment?

What is the first step in reaching out to my boss? Like what is the smallest external thing I could do to start to make some shifts? Um, But yeah, I think it can be really, really easy to just get lost in the puzzling of it all, the analyzing of it all, and then not actually taking the action and the integration.

Kelly Schmidt: But I think what you’re describing is something more like, you know, kind of dipping the toe in the water and saying like, can I start to maybe consider easing all the way in?

Um, which I think is maybe not what we all are thinking our practitioner or therapist is telling us to [00:11:00] do. We sit across from somebody or we do the work thinking, Oh, they’re telling me I just need to rip the band aid off in a massive way or else it doesn’t count towards progress. And I think what you’re describing feels so doable for most of us, right?

I think if we were to really list out what are the small bite sized, uh, little action steps that I could take to kind of build up to something, and I don’t know what that something will be. I don’t have to project into the worst case scenario, but what are the initial small steps? That feels It’s more like something my head and heart can wrap my brain around.

And yet I always find myself catastrophizing like, I can’t take this giant leap, even though no one’s really asking us for that, right?

Leigh Ann: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, in, I don’t know, in some ways maybe some people are, and so this is that little reminder of, yeah, it doesn’t necessarily have to be the biggest thing, you know, the jump off the cliff kind of metaphor.

Um, yeah.

Kelly Schmidt: It can be though, like that’s fine. Yeah, that’s

Leigh Ann: Sometimes. [00:12:00] And if you feel ready and you’ve got the gumption and you’re. Yeah, for sure. Sometimes we do and we can be ready and have that momentum there. Um, I’m lost my train of thought of the point I wanted to make. It’ll come back to me.

Kelly Schmidt: of course,

Leigh Ann: Post, um, Saraset post concussion brain. What were we? Um,

Kelly Schmidt: Uh, I was saying, what was I saying? About the bite sized chunks, like I don’t need to catastrophize that. It’s,

this is the only way

Leigh Ann: catastrophizing, even just the fear in general, what is the sentiment beneath that? I think the sentiment beneath that is, if I were to dare to do this thing, I don’t trust that I could get through it.

It would destroy me. Whatever the thing is, uh, no, no matter how big or small that I think really is what is at the root of it. Why don’t I want to? Bring up this conversation with my husband. Yeah, maybe it’s because it’ll lead to a fight and then it’ll lead to this, but [00:13:00] what at the root of it, does it all boil down to?

It’s whatever I’m afraid it will lead to. I don’t feel confident in myself that I’ll be able to face that and get through that. And so again, this is where I think it’s a little bit of, I call it practice rounds. Like what is going to convince your brain that you actually can do something Manage that, get through that, navigate some of those tricky things.

Part of it is the subconscious work that we can do. Part of it is just doing it. And then you get through it and maybe it was uncomfortable, unpleasant. But at the other end, your brain is like, Oh, huh. Okay. I did that. It was unpleasant and I made it through it. Okay.

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah. Yeah. But is there not some level of risk that, you know, for some decisions in our lives, maybe we wouldn’t be able to get through it very well, or it could actually lead to life being immeasurably harder or worse?

For us.

Leigh Ann: very well, or [00:14:00] it could actually lead to life being immeasurably or worse for us.

Prescriptive recommendations of here’s exactly what you need to go home and do and change, particularly with external stuff, with internal stuff, I might be like, Hey, we really need to do some nervous system work every day, you know, things like

Kelly Schmidt: makes sense, yeah.

Leigh Ann: but yeah, fully acknowledging sometimes there are multiple paths we could take and do we know where every single path is going to lead?

Not necessarily, but I also think. It’s okay, what do I need to do to either feel safer with the potential fallout or the potential outcome? Um, or what do I need to do to start to actually get more clarity on, is this right for me? Sometimes that’s the first starting action is I think I might need to change this relationship.

The implications are so [00:15:00] huge. It would explode my family. Duh, duh, duh, duh, duh. Yeah, of course. We’re not, we’re not saying just like dive into those decisions lightly, but what do you need to do if this relationship is causing you so much turmoil? Yes. Again, there’s a lot of work we can do so that internally, even if nothing changes, you have so much more peace, calm, clarity in that relationship.

And at the same time.

Um, I’m

not necessarily trying to help people become tolerant of misalignment, become tolerant of even like abuse, right? This is something that I feel like has come up lately with a couple of clients where it’s like truly levels of abusive relationships, not, not necessarily romantic people in their lives who are toxic and abusive.

And while on the one hand, I want them to be able to go in the moment, understanding what’s happening. Um. Understanding this is not about me. We’re changing the internal narratives [00:16:00] when they’re experiencing some of that verbal abuse, whatever, some of the abuses. So their narratives are different. So they can have a whole different experience of it.

And at the same time, I’m like, I do think we really need to consider how often we’re going to be around this person. I don’t necessarily want you to be like, Oh yeah, it doesn’t bother me. So I can just be around them all day, every

Kelly Schmidt: Right. Oh

Leigh Ann: and think that that’s not going to impact

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah. Oh my gosh. Um, okay. So that kind of leads me to another question that has been brewing is how often do you think the fear of others reactions in our lives is showing up as maybe a reason we don’t take right action or maybe aligned action for ourselves?

Do you see that come up with clients or even for yourself?

Leigh Ann: Yeah, I think so. Even in that, like what I think that boils down to, or what I see it boiling down to, is the fear of disconnection. You know, whether it’s the person I’m actually setting a boundary with, or the [00:17:00] people in our circle.

If I have to set a boundary with this person, that might also cut me off from all of these other people in this group, in this family, etc.

Kelly Schmidt: Oh, that makes so much sense. I don’t know, that just really, it’s so, I totally sense that because I think sometimes we can, you know, Say to each other like, well, who cares what they think? Who cares? And it’s so easy and casual to just toss out, do it for you. Do what’s right for you. It doesn’t matter, but that’s not really how we’re wired as, as human beings.

We’re really wired to care very much about belonging. And so when an action you need to take is going to potentially disconnect you from Um, even if it’s not necessarily people you love, but just people who’ve played a big part in your ecosystem. I think that can really hold you back from taking the next step and, and understandably so.

Leigh Ann: understandably so. 100%. Exactly. I think again, I see this most often. I see this, I think, in family dynamics where there’s A parent figure, a sibling [00:18:00] who is creating a lot of turbulence, oftentimes can be very abusive and to cut them off would be to maybe cut yourself off from the whole family in general because of the influence that person has on the family.

And so again, it’s kind of like, we’re always dialoguing and I want most of this to come from the client themself. What is a starting point here? A starting point could be You know, I just, I go over less, I call them less, I pick up the phone less, but also to your point, even there is something that is being lost there, even if it’s not totally, even if it’s not really that nourishing or uplifting of a connection, our spirit is still like, but it’s connection.

Like it’s something. And in some ways I almost feel like starting action. Action I might take there could be, where can I go actually first start to [00:19:00] foster like a true depth of nourishing, loving reciprocal connection elsewhere.

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah.

Leigh Ann: It’s and, and again, like that could be the first action where it’s like, you know what?

Let’s not even worry about changing anything with this person. You know, it’s, it’s funny. I like this like detox analogy of like when you’re at the doctor, there’s, there’s basically two things they’re trying to do. They’re trying to help clear out. Bad, bad toxic stuff in your body and then add in more good nourishing stuff.

And I think emotional work really is just the exact same thing where it’s like, what is the turbulence press, um, past and present, but then also like, what is the emotional nourishment that we can bring in more of?

Kelly Schmidt: yeah, and an interesting note or call out there about the kind of order of that. You don’t have to completely clear out your life of every potentially toxic or not quite aligned connection first and be staring at a blank page. Uh, I think [00:20:00] that’s a very lonely place and maybe in, in that space of being uprooted or disconnected.

I think Perhaps you’re not in the best headspace to start making those nourishing connections, but maybe even in the here and now, I think before you start making some really drastic moves or what might appear or feel to be drastic moves at this point in your life, just being willing to say, okay, let’s add in a few more of those.

Really grounding, nourishing connections to others, or even just activities or practices for yourself that bring in more of that earlier alignment. We’re talking about alignment with self. I mean, the best connections with all of us are bringing us back to home within ourselves, right? All of my closest friendships are always pushing me back to how I reconnect with me and how I show love and kindness to me.

So. Yeah, I think that’s an excellent point and makes it feel also a little bit more, um, just approachable as I think about making shifts for myself. I’m sure your clients would feel the same.

Leigh Ann: the same. Yeah. Well, and also it’s [00:21:00] that fuel. It’s that energy of, Ooh, I’ve got a, I’ve got a big shift to make, I’ve got a, a big decision, a big change and let me fuel myself up, not just like physically with. Nutrition and whatever, all the things, but emotionally let my, let me fuel myself up.

So I have more capacity to do that hard

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah, I think that’s an excellent note for sure.

Leigh Ann: So often with these dynamics, though, I asked this question of what is it costing me? I asked this of my cancer patients a lot. I’m thinking specifically, actually, she, she wasn’t a cancer patient, but I’m thinking specifically of a client from earlier this year who narcissistic mom and sister.

very,

very toxic dynamics, as you can imagine. And I started to say, first of all, how much time are you spending with them? Well, like a couple of times a week, a couple hours each time. Okay. What is that costing you? And [00:22:00] really what it came down to in one of our EVOC sessions, what she’s like, it’s literally costing me, my, my identity, my soul.

I have to completely abandon myself to be in any kind of connection with them. And so here’s how I phrased that for her. I’m like, great. We know the cost. How often are you willing to pay that? Because you are getting something like we’re not, let’s not, let’s not take away from that. There is something you are getting out of those interactions.

Even if it’s not like the fullest of the full, right? Maybe, maybe it’s not the full pie. Maybe you’re getting like a couple crumbs, but we still are really enjoying those crumbs right now. Great. But. Are you willing to pay your soul for crumbs?

Kelly Schmidt: Hmm.

Leigh Ann: And,

how often are you willing to pay that price?

And I was like, if it was me,

the cost,

the cost of that interaction, I think would be worth an hour [00:23:00] of my time, an hour of my time once a month,

Like, that’s how much I

Kelly Schmidt: actually quantify

Leigh Ann: like, yes, like that’s how much I might be willing to make that exchange.

Kelly Schmidt: Mm.

Leigh Ann: Three times a week, multiple hours. No, no, no, no. That is costing us way too much. So what is the cost of this thing?

How often do I want to pay that price?

Kelly Schmidt: man. Yeah, and I think, I bet if all of us really sat down and, and wrote out even just exactly what we felt that cost us and, you know, how often in terms of the cadence, but also just at the end of this year, what do I want to be able to say about myself and is this kind of baggage, this load I’m carrying along the way as a result of these connections going to hold me back from getting where I’m trying to be.

As I look forward in my life this year in 20 years, however long, you know, I think I like to project out like, where are, [00:24:00] where am I going? And are you coming with me? And is this baggage going to hold me almost like, you know, those wind? Um, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,

Leigh Ann: The

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah. The parachute on runners.

Totally. I see it that way for a lot of connections with us. And I think, you know, of course in that capacity is training us. Right. But at some point, some of these connections aren’t training us.

We can learn the lesson, and we can say, I’m ready to put that down. I’m ready to actually run the race. Because they don’t run the race with

Leigh Ann: don’t run the race with those. Yes. Ooh, so good.

Kelly Schmidt: but yeah, I think that’s an excellent note. I’m really just like buzzing with all of these because I, I feel so convicted myself, right? Of all of the different ways I have made mental checklists of like, well, it’s fine because X, Y, and Z, or I should put up with it because whatever. And of course we know when we use the word should for ourselves, that’s a clue we need to sit down and reassess.

But I totally agree with you. I think there’s a lot that can be quantified about the connections in our [00:25:00] lives that we’re just too busy maintaining them to even sit down and add it up.

Leigh Ann: Yeah, yeah, and in all the ways, what is it costing me, not just with time, but energy, emotional capacity,

spiritual capacity.

When I’m done, what is like the fallout, right? If it’s like, yeah, I spend X number of hours Three hours, three times a week with them. It’s miserable. And then the next two days after that, I’m so dysregulated and distraught that I can’t fully participate in my life.

It’s like, that’s all the cost we need to look at. Of not just the actual interaction, but then the ripple effect of that interaction that comes after that. And I think here is, and I know it doesn’t necessarily feel this way for many of the cancer patients, but here’s some of the blessing in cancer specifically, and sometimes like other chronic illness diagnoses, it makes it very clear what you do not want to put up with anymore, what are those first things [00:26:00] to go now that I can.

Give cancer as a reason. What are those things you’re not doing anymore? Oh, you know, I can’t do that because I’ve got doctor appointments today. Or

like,

what are those first things that you’re cutting immediately that now no one, no one is questioning because you have cancer. It makes it very, very clear.

Like, yeah, all the things that right now you think you don’t have the capacity for just because you have cancer probably were things you didn’t have capacity before.

Kelly Schmidt: Right,

Leigh Ann: But now, like, your subconscious feels like it actually has a good enough reason to not do

Kelly Schmidt: You’re allowed.

Yeah, you’re giving yourself the permission. Sort of piggybacking off of that. How do you or what would you say to people who feel like, okay, making a, breaking a connection, setting a boundary, making a big choice that might have rippling effect throughout my family, my relationships, whatnot. What would you say to people who say, well, I, I don’t want to make that choice because if I set a boundary with my brother, for [00:27:00] example, it will hurt my mom and she’s innocent in this.

Or if I set a boundary here for myself with my partner, it will hurt my kids and they’re innocent in this. How do you feel like what’s kind of the path forward?

Leigh Ann: Yeah. Well, if I could say what’s happening there briefly, what’s happening there is we’re choosing to protect others over ourself. Yeah. which I think so many of us are doing.

Ultimately, when it comes down to it, who am I going to protect? And many of us default to the other.

Kelly Schmidt: And

is that so

Leigh Ann: wrong? It’s not necessarily wrong. It’s not necessarily wrong. And

And at the same time, again, kind of coming back to that cost, if the cost of whatever the thing is, your mind, body, and spirit is saying, I cannot keep paying this.

Then I think we need to get a little more

convicted and go, I have to protect myself. Even if [00:28:00] that ruffles some feathers, even if that is hurtful to others. Of course, you know, that’s something I would say, Hey, how can we, what are some conversations we can workshop with some of those other people to try and mitigate that, mitigate maybe the fallout with some of the other people in the circle?

I think there’s a lot of work we can do around there. Again, like what is within my power? There is so much within our power. We can have a lot of conversations. Um, but ultimately I think sometimes we do have to go. Yeah, I could set this boundary with my brother and my mom might get so mad at me that, you know, it’s family.

How could you possibly, you know, you only have one family, you got to just love them and accept them. And, and there will be people who might not be able to understand

Kelly Schmidt: Right.

Leigh Ann: some of these boundaries. Of course, again, can we have conversations with them to try and support that? Sure. But again, like. [00:29:00] What is that going to cost you?

What is that going to cost you to not set the boundary? Um, yeah.

Kelly Schmidt: Do you believe in the phrase that what’s good for you will be good for other

people?

Leigh Ann: This is like my favorite Kelly phrase that I really, I really do believe in. And I say, I say like a similar thing, which is what is most loving for yourself is probably what is most loving for others.

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah.

Leigh Ann: know? So often the dynamics we’re keeping ourself in feels like, Oh, it’s, you know, I don’t want to hurt their feelings. I don’t want to upset them. But what are, what’s happening there? Really? It’s just that I’m enabling all of us to stay in these, um, in these misaligned

Kelly Schmidt: And controlling in some ways like I am so guilty of this but I think there have been times where I actively think that I am doing what’s best for everybody by kind of puppeteering [00:30:00] these family dynamics or friendship things or partner things like oh, I’m I’m I know what’s best for them a Somehow I know that

Leigh Ann: Uh,

Kelly Schmidt: Um, maybe if you’re a person who’s done a lot of the work, the emotional work as we’re talking about, you might feel like, Oh, well, I’ve done all of this.

My parents don’t know what’s right for them. I, but I do, I can see what’s going on here. I understand the dynamics, you know, a lot, right? And so it’s tempting to want to step in and say, well, this is how things should be. And I see the. the path forward and then you start to almost unknowingly sometimes move the chess pieces around the board and that is not loving, not allowing other people to make their choices and let the consequences kind of fall where they may.

And I think even the consequences with you, when people make choices and you end up feeling like I need to set a boundary or I even need to disconnect here, That’s the choice they made, the consequence is losing a connection to you, not the other way

Leigh Ann: [00:31:00] Mm-Hmm? .Yeah. You’re making me think of another client whose father was and is very toxic in many different ways. And, and I was telling her like his pattern from what she has described is he will be. Incredibly verbally abusive, demeaning, putting, putting people down, controlling.

And then when those people like indefinitely back off and he’s, he’s so sad and shocked that they want to, you know, create some space, she would jump in to soothe. And I was like, from childhood, you have been soothing the

Kelly Schmidt: turbulence,

Leigh Ann: your dad’s turbulence. From his own behaviors. And that has in some ways, right.

In a very, very small way. I’m not saying she’s responsible, but in a very, very small way has enabled him to continue because he does something [00:32:00] really painful, hurtful, inappropriate.

he

feels bad about it. You swoop in as like the uplifter. I gave her this analogy of like the little ball of hurt. He has this little ball of hurt because of all the.

Damage he’s caused, you’re coming in and going, Oh, here, let me take that. Let me take that. Let me carry that for you. And it’s like, he’s, he’s got to learn to sit with that ball of hurt. And this is, you know, this specific example is getting into so many childhood dynamics, which is like, of course, a child in that situation is going to want to try and sue their parent who can’t sue themselves.

There’s a lot of like survival dynamics in there.

Kelly Schmidt: And that makes perfect sense, right? Like we’re all, I mean, if you’re almost, you know, indoctrinated as a kid, like this is how I need to be in order to receive love, stability, get my needs met. I mean, that’s going to be a hard habit to break.

So a lot of people are coming by this adult behavior really honestly, right? It’s been a pattern you’ve had probably [00:33:00] most of your life, very much unknowingly. Um, and, um, You know, this is the point of doing the work is getting to a point where you feel like all right I may be ready now that I know And I can’t unknow it now that i’m aware That this is the pattern i’ve been living in and I can see the ways it’s costing me and not serving me Now it is time to actually do something about it.

And I do think that this is the point where most of us end up having a little false start a little, like I’m, I’m trying, but I can’t seem to quite get the energy. Let me just schedule one more round of therapy and just, you know, and I think that’s really common. Do you, I don’t know, do you have any like tips or tricks that you, you feel like help people?

Get yourself even over the, the fear, the, the hump of like, I, I cannot take this next step.

Leigh Ann: something I love to do. It’s a visual meditation. I actually have a meditation I made on this inside the soothing sanctuary. [00:34:00] It’s like connect with your future self meditation. And if you could connect with your future self and imagine they have the whole life that you’re wanting to create. It’s two things.

If we could connect with them and say, Hey, like, how did you do this? How did you get here? What are they saying back to us? Oh, we did that thing. We set that boundary.

Sometimes

I have them do the reverse though, which is you’re here today working with me, looking back at past decisions, maybe sometimes wishing you’d made different decisions.

So let’s fast forward 20 years. In 20 years, if nothing changes. What is your future self going to look back right at this moment and go, I really wish, I really wish I could have just done that thing or made that change. Ooh. And sometimes like the visual of that really hits home and also makes it very, very clear.

Like, [00:35:00] here’s the thing we need

Kelly Schmidt: to change.

Leigh Ann: Again, I do, I do really want to encourage people having a therapist, having a coach and accountability partner, a really good reciprocal aligned friendship. Those can be so helpful in giving you a bit of a foundation to go and make some of these external changes that way.

Again, like if it doesn’t go according to plan, which sometimes it doesn’t, you can come back to that safety net.

So I guess like the, the shortest thing I’d say is have the support system, like for sure. Have the support

Kelly Schmidt: Yep, yep. And that’s kind of what we were talking about earlier is go get those nurturing connections. Go establish a routine, a self care routine. All the things that are kind of build up nourishment in you before you jump into this.

But, I think what you’re talking about is Kind of projecting into the future and seeing what could happen if you stayed on this path is so impactful. I mean, I know that human nature is kind of [00:36:00] like we’re, we’re interested in our positive, hopeful, like best selves, but we are terrified by the worst case scenario.

And we dwell a lot in that space. I think we do a lot in the nerves of, in the anxieties. And in fact, the world around us plays into that so much, but yeah. Not in a negative way, but I think in a way that, um, really is almost like, it’s like Scrooge, right? Visiting with the ghosts of, of Christmas past and future, right?

You really, if you put yourself in that mindset to say, what could life could look like for me in 10, 20, 30 years? And. And knowing that that’s just not it, you know, like, and really envisioning it and seeing this is going to be the story that my life tells. Wow, I feel like that would just be such a gut punch, in the best possible way, right?

To say, there really is no other path, right? Like, I would have to fully put my head in the sand. I would fully have to say, [00:37:00] I am denying what I know is true and right and aligned for me. I’ve done all this work. I’ve probably paid a lot of money to, to come to these conclusions. And I’m going to actively turn away from it.

And just walk forward into this future of fear, out of absolute fear. And, um, I mean, I know that you have such a gracious response for us around our fears always, and what they’re trying to tell us. And I think they, they do always want to protect us, right? Our fears really do, but man, that would be so impactful.

And I think it’s a great tool for just maybe getting up the gumption.

Leigh Ann: Yeah, yeah. And like, even make it a little more specific. A year from now, a year from now, looking back today, Okay.

what will

future you a year from now be so grateful you did? This for me is like really impactful.

It gives me a lot of clarity of like, oh yeah, I’m gonna, God, I’m going to be so grateful.

And I’ve

had those years where I have looked [00:38:00] back and been like, holy shit, Leanne of 2023, I fricking love you so much. Thank you for doing that hard thing. Thank you for staying the path. Thank you for, you know, continuing to show up and do whatever that thing was. Because now, like, present day me is reaping the rewards of that.

Kelly Schmidt: I’m sure we could all say that, too. We could all look back on a year or a couple decisions in our lives where we said, I’m so grateful I did that, and in fact, being able to say that means you came out on the other side of that hard, hard thing that felt so impossible. Um, so, not to sound like, You know, rah rah, you can do it, but I think there is a measure of like a reality check there, which is every time you’ve looked back and thanked yourself for making a hard choice or going in a certain direction, you’ve come out all the better for it.

And you are indeed on the path that you were hoping to be on, if you can say that. So, um, better to jump, jump on at any point, you know, that you [00:39:00] can kind of get back to the alignment that you’ve been searching for and obviously doing the work for.

Leigh Ann: the analogy that’s just coming up for me is like, let’s say you’re a sculptor and you’re, you’re drawing out plans for this beautiful sculpture that you’re going to start carving and you’re drawing and you’re drawing and you’re editing and you’re refining, like, at some point we need to get out the chisel and start making those first little chisels. And you’re not going to make this beautiful sculpture in one day, but at some point you do have to pick up those tools and take action, even though kind of to the point we’re making, right. Drawing the plans out sometimes is the first step. Like we have to start there. We have to know what is it I’m trying to build?

What is it I’m trying to sculpt?

Kelly Schmidt: But

Leigh Ann: at some point we do have to take it from paper to,

to action, to

our hands, to actually. Start to build and create that sculpture

Kelly Schmidt: And we all have that, right? I think even the most action oriented [00:40:00] people I know still have one or two areas where they’re like, but I can’t take action here.

You know, I, I think this is absolutely universal human experience. There are connections, there are steps that all of us need to take in different parts of our lives that feel harder than others. in one area than others. So I think another thing I wanted to ask you about is like, how can we have grace for each other when you might be looking at, you know, friends or even yourself or, you know, family members and saying, why don’t you make this choice?

It’s so obvious what you need to do. And, and it can seem so obvious, you know, to the people around you, but when you’re in it, it’s so not obvious. So any thoughts on

that?

Leigh Ann: Yeah. Well, kind of what you were saying earlier, sometimes I become the chess master of

Kelly Schmidt: life.

Leigh Ann: my circle, my family, my friends, I think it’s wonderful to be able to speak insight into a loved one’s life.

Ultimately, I really do believe most of the time they need to be the ones that actually put their hand on the chess [00:41:00] piece and move it, we can’t be moving it for them because that’s still enabling.

Kelly Schmidt: It’s

Leigh Ann: It’s still enabling them to, you’re going to be moving the chess pieces for them forever.

Kelly Schmidt: Sure.

Leigh Ann: Even though it feels like, and I know, cause I have been there, it feels like if I just move this one more piece for them, they’ll be able to get it.

And then they’re going to, then they’re going to take the wheel of their life and start driving. the only way they can take the wheel of their life is if you get out of the driver’s seat.

Kelly Schmidt: So

Leigh Ann: You can’t both sit there.

Kelly Schmidt: So, so true. Wow.

Leigh Ann: And it’s so funny. This is coming up because when I was going through my breast cancer scare in 2020, I had such a vivid visual because I felt so much concern and responsibility for the people in my life of, okay, you need to do this.

You need to change these habits and eat these things and see these doctors and [00:42:00] listen to these books and read whatever, all these things. And there was the visual that came up in my mind was like, I was the, um, I don’t even know what they’re called, like the dogs that carry the sleighs.

Kelly Schmidt: Oh, like the mushing

Leigh Ann: yeah, yeah.

Kelly Schmidt: yeah,

Leigh Ann: That was me. And all my family and friends were like connected to me and I was pulling them through life. And I had such a powerful visual after an EVOC session, of course, where I just cut all of those

Kelly Schmidt: and

Leigh Ann: And On the one hand, there was an immense sense of relief that came from that of like, Oh God.

Okay. If all I have to worry about is getting myself forward. Well, that feels easy compared to what I was doing before, but there can also be an immense amount of grief that comes with that. Because the reality is if I stop towing you, I have to make peace with the fact that you might never take another step forward.[00:43:00]

Kelly Schmidt: That’s so hard. Yeah. It’s so, so hard. Yeah. When, when you love other people, it that is I think, one of the hardest cords you will ever cut. Yeah.

Leigh Ann: Filled with joy and peace and alignment and to see them not having that, knowing there’s things they could do to get there. That is super, super hard. That’s, that’s hard for us. I think emotionally empathetically, we feel that, and it can be really hard too, because their, their lack of pursuit of healing is maybe creating a lot of dynamics that are very uncomfortable, toxic, even the analogy that I gave myself so that I could have peace with that is. They’re, the people who aren’t moving, who are stagnant, they’re docked in a harbor. Their ship’s docked in a harbor. My ship’s gonna set sail. I can come back to the harbor. [00:44:00] If they’re stagnant, they’re still gonna be here. There’s no reason I can’t come back to this harbor every now and then. But, to maintain connection and relationship, I can’t just stay in the harbor. Forever and never sail anywhere. And so, and even that there’s still a little bit of grief. Cause it’s like, I’m going to sail away, which means I’m going to see you less, but it doesn’t mean I never have to see you

Kelly Schmidt: Sure. And

Leigh Ann: when I feel like coming back to this particular Harbor, I

Kelly Schmidt: I can.

Yeah, yeah, but there’s grief in that.

The seeing you less, the you’re not going to see the sights of the world with me. You will not know what I know. You won’t somehow get to see the fullness of what it means to fully sail your ship. And that’s, I think, such a loss for people. But to your point, yes, I think So important that regardless we do the work to be able to set sail fully for ourselves.

A beautiful metaphor, I love [00:45:00] that. And

Leigh Ann: That we just need to be like completely hands off with everyone in our lives. We never do anything for other people. I could, I could see how maybe that could be an interpretation of that. No, I think especially I’m thinking particularly of parents. Sometimes there’s just a natural desire to

Kelly Schmidt: Um, and

Leigh Ann: to help give them new information, give them like the latest info on

Kelly Schmidt: them new information,

Leigh Ann: Here’s where like that boundary comes in for me again, like what is it costing me? If it is not. Impacting you too severely or derailing your life.

I do think there’s a world in which we can say, Hey, like really, they should be doing this for themselves. They’re not, I know they’re not going to, but if it costs me an hour a week to do this thing for them so that they have a better, whatever quality of life, we have better dynamics.

and [00:46:00] I,

I’m fine, I’m fine paying that cost once a week that like that is for each of us to decide where I want us to be really cognizant is, yes, when moving the chess pieces when steering the, the cars steering the ships for others starts to then have a really negative impact on me, that is where we do need to get a little more convicted with the boundaries there.

But if it’s like, hey. You know, it’s an hour a week, it’s an hour twice a month, I, I go over there, do a couple things for them, maybe it’s, I make their doctor’s appointments for them, and if that to you feels like, you know what, this is well within my capacity, it’s not having any negative effects on my life, great, do it, keep doing it.

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah. And I think that’s also a really, um, important call out because I think a lot of the chatter you see on socials these days is around setting really firm boundaries.

I mean, very black and white, cut people out of your life. [00:47:00] They don’t deserve one ounce of your time or energy. There’s very little nuance. I think I don’t hear a lot of nuanced conversations around how to maintain connection with. people, like the point of a boundary, you’ve always said this is not to shut people out, but to allow you to have a good sense of connection to them.

Like it’s to maintain the connection. Not a boundary is not to X nay you from this person fully. So, uh, I think a really important note for all of us and something I want to think on for myself is just about how to make sure that I’m balancing out my needs. And what I have a capacity for with maintaining connections with people who maybe, maybe don’t have the energy, the know how, or the self awareness to kind of not be super stagnant or, or pull themselves forward in certain ways that I think are important.

But, yeah, I, I think that’s a beautiful note, um, and allows us to maintain connections with people that we care about. For example, our family. [00:48:00] That’s, that’s an important one.

Leigh Ann: I,

think for the most part, it’s rarely all or nothing,

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah.

Leigh Ann: and, and if we are looking to only allow people into our lives who are 100 percent aligned with us, I just think that circle is going to be so, so small. And there’s a lot of. There’s a lot of benefit in coming, in being around people who are a little bit different.

Again, like where that actual line lies for each of us is so unique and individual for all of us. But yeah, I do like, this is something I do catch myself, especially I think in adulthood where it’s like, truly, I think you are only going to spend time with people for the most part, if you’re planning it, at least that’s how, you know, that’s a lot of how my life is.

And so sometimes I will find myself being like, Oh, well, you know, that person I can tell is da, da, da. I don’t know if, I don’t know how close I want to get to them. And I do have to sometimes pull myself back and go, [00:49:00] yeah, they are da, da, da. Um, and also like, that’s not something that is going to impact me or bring me down.

I don’t need to let that be something that impacts me and brings me down. And I think the like positive, beautiful components of them. Are really great too, you know? And, and by the way, like personally, I don’t want people to be so black and white

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah. Yeah.

Leigh Ann: you know, I get like, I go through my own phases where I’m a little, whatever, like very, very stingy with my time.

I, um, can be a little like, I don’t know. Yeah. critical with things I do or don’t do. And sometimes I’ve over indexed on that and missed out on a lot. And so grateful that those people didn’t just cut me out of their life because they, they could have said, Oh, Leanne, she’s so picky. She’s so whatever. Um, so I’m also grateful

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah, we all have

Leigh Ann: in my life who hold nuance.

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah, so true and I think to that point, um [00:50:00] people hold that space for us what a reminder that we don’t necessarily Connect with others or love them because of any sense of deserving, right? I think sometimes it is simply because You You know, there’s something about that person that you do see you like we see the inherent worthiness of each other and even if they have these little, maybe even beliefs, you know, I think sometimes beliefs or values that we don’t align with.

I think that is another thing I see people taking a very hard line on. I think especially in election year. Um, and yet I think there is a lot of wisdom to be had in tolerating different points of view. And, again, I think you would always call out, nothing abusive, nothing that truly crosses a deep, deep value that feels really misaligned.

But I think we can all kind of suss that out for ourselves. But on the flip side, there can be a lot learned and gained from those connections.

Leigh Ann: Yeah,

I think the takeaway we were going to share some of this, maybe we’ll save it for another time just because we’re running out of time, but [00:51:00] I think it’d take a great reflection is just what what are some of those action items, whether it’s right like an internal thing.

I. Hey, I know that I have been really anxious. I do whatever my Evocs every week. I do my coaching every week, but then the rest of the week I’m not doing anything. Okay. Maybe that action item for you is I need to get more intentional about daily doing some kind of emotional support for myself. Maybe it is some bigger external action.

Like I need to have a certain conversation or set a certain boundary or whatever. I feel like we need to do an episode on boundaries because I also feel like that word is so. Overuse that it’s like, what does that even mean anymore? Setting a boundary. Um,

Kelly Schmidt: need to do an episode on all the buzzwords,

Leigh Ann: yes, yes.

Kelly Schmidt: and maybe find a, like, another synonym so that we can stop saying them.

Leigh Ann: Yes. But what, what might be the [00:52:00] smallest action you could start to take to integrate some of the things that you’ve been. Learning, puzzling out, et cetera.

Kelly Schmidt: I’m totally open to thinking about maybe doing that at some point. ,

Leigh Ann: A lot of vagueness, totally

Kelly Schmidt: to babies. Thinking about babies.

Leigh Ann: No, I,

I totally get it. And it’s just like, okay, we gotta, we gotta start actually

Kelly Schmidt: Yeah. Okay.

Leigh Ann: I’ve got a lot of plans again. Like I’m so guilty of this, but time to start sculpting and it doesn’t mean we can’t like sculpt a little bit, go back to the plans, make some changes, sculpt a little bit, but we’ve got to start sculpting.

Kelly Schmidt: Wow, beautiful.