TA Ep. 168 Jonny Miller – Finding Balance: The Art of Emotional and Nervous System Regulation

[00:00:00]

Leigh Ann: Start on the recording. Well, Johnny, welcome to The Accrescent community, The Accrescent podcast. So happy to have you

Jonny Miller: It’s wonderful to be here, Leigh Ann. Thank you.

Leigh Ann: We were talking just briefly before jumping on. You’re even just kind of going through some of your content, your social media, your podcast, so well versed in the area of the nervous system that I coming into today, I was like, this is going to be too rudimentary for him, but I think you’re such a great person to give all of us this, foundational information on the nervous system.

So we’re going to start with some of the basics and then I’m going to hit you with some other fun questions at the end that might spice things up a little bit. But with all of that said, I do think a starting point is, you know, the, the cliche question of how did you get into this? What led you to the nervous system?

Something about it clearly lights you up so

Jonny Miller: Yeah, totally. Well, um, without giving you a kind of like 30 minute version of my entire life story, um, I, [00:01:00] where’s the best place to begin? I mean, honestly, my story kind of begins in tragedy. And I think a lot of people that. Um, find themselves in this line of work. There’s usually some kind of hardship or crisis that they went to or that they went through.

And for me, it was, it was loss. I, um, I was engaged to a amazing woman who had bipolar. And, um, one morning when I was traveling, she really quite out of the blue overdosed on her own medication and she ended up taking her own life. And that, that was really my initiation into, into grief, into like, exploring my own emotions.

And I’d been relatively, relatively numb from the neck down. I would say growing up as a, as a man in England, we’re kind of a famously emotionally repressed culture. Um, and so, so that was kind of like my own initiation into, like, I, I kind of went into meditation. I went into breath work, into psychedelic work, all of these different pathways.

And, um, Yeah, as I was [00:02:00] exploring, particularly in the breathwork training that I did, I realized that it was the, the human nervous system was kind of the common thread between these, these healing modalities and these approaches that I’d, that I’d been exploring. And I’d learned some things in the breathwork training and was also able to see that the type of breathwork that we did, where we kind of like read the breathing pattern of our clients, and then we’re able to like modulate their nervous system, so to speak, and kind of upshift or downshift as needed.

And seeing that and like feeling the impact that that had on, on my life as well. I was like this, it just feels so important. And what I like about the nervous system is it’s both, it’s very tangible. Everyone has a nervous system. And I like to say that the state of our nervous system is like the lens through which we view reality.

Um, And at the same time, I think it’s a, it’s a doorway to conversations around states of consciousness and around meditation and around, um, some of the stuff that science is still figuring out. So it’s been, it’s been really fun to learn and explore [00:03:00] and ultimately share back, um, stuff over the last three or four years.

Uh, yeah, and I’m happy to go in, in, you know, whatever direction would be most interesting. Okay.

Leigh Ann: have questions about the breathwork because I, I see my chiropractor weekly, he does so many other things, but he’s always like, you’re not breathing again, like, you’re not breathing again, um, so he, he observes, and I have a very shallow, very, slow breathing pattern. So that’s something that I’ve just been trying to work on and be more aware of recently.

I have questions on the breathwork that I’ll hold for a second because I’ve never found breathwork that impactful personally, although I recommend it to clients all the time when I just say, Hey, like experiment. What works for you is not going to work for someone else.

We’re all here to kind of experiment with the tools and the types of tools that are going to be best for us. But so this is something that I’m wanting to learn more and more about, about why doesn’t it resonate for me, but also understanding, I, I believe I know where these breathing patterns come from rooted in some deep early childhood trauma, um, where I literally would just hold my breath.

As long as I possibly could. So I do know some of the roots of it, but now it’s kind of like, okay, how do I restore normal breathing? What even is normal breathing? So,

Jonny Miller: Yeah. Yeah. Great question. I mean, there’s a number of ways I could answer, but I mean, I think of the breath, it’s, it’s both a diagnostic tool and it’s also a means of, um, releasing some of [00:06:00] those tensions. And what, what my teacher taught me was that, um, in You know, in our body, we have these tensions or these incomplete reflexes where we’ve buffered kind of intense emotions from our past and not fully felt them through.

And this shows up as, um, a breathing pattern, which is not fully dynamic. So we kind of lose some of our range or some of our capacity in the breath. And by Yeah, there’s various forms of breathwork and it’s kind of a confusing term, honestly. There’s um, like functional breathing, which is more of like, like, um, using the full mobility of your, of your diaphragm and kind of learning to breathe light, slow and deep and kind of increasing your CO2 tolerance, things like that.

But the version of breathwork that I Kind of went deep into is called facilitated breath repatterning bit of a mouthful, but you breathe in a circular way and By breathing in that way it creates Changes in blood chemistry which allows for some of the subconscious material to kind of rise to the surface often this will [00:07:00] look like There’ll be emotions, there might be sadness, there might be anger, there might just be movements, kind of developmental reflexes that were stunted in the early stages of development and those get to be completed.

And as a result of that, the breathing pattern also shifts and then the breathing can become more dynamic, more full, more adaptive and responsive to the situation so that when we’re trying to be calm, we’re not kind of huffing and puffing. And when we’re trying to be activated, we have that kind of The full range.

So we, I think of it as like, like years, like we want to be able to go from first year to fifth year as is required, basically.

Leigh Ann: mm hmm. Yeah. I almost wonder, tell me if this like it lands at all, breathwork feels like it’s become kind of like yoga where we say yoga, but there’s so many types. There’s so many versions and there’s so many different ways to use it. But I do think breathwork has been a little bit diluted. With all of the talk around it, especially with social media.

And, you know, you kind of see like the main things like. It’s not a four count breathing. And some of these simple things, and I think [00:08:00] myself included, start to feel like, okay, that’s what it is. And if that doesn’t work for me, then I guess breathwork doesn’t work for me. But there’s so much nuance to it.

Even what you’re saying about how it can elicit things to surface, it already catches my attention. That’s very much what I do with clients with Evox and the technology that I use in the subconscious work. And so it’s, it’s interesting to go, Hmm, how can breathwork fit into that? Or even outside of sessions, how can that fit into

Jonny Miller: Totally. Yeah. I mean, I think of it as almost like there’s multiple doorways into the subconscious, like you say, and for some people breathing in a circular way is easier, for other people it’s like internal family systems or it’s tapping or there’s so many ways to surface that material. I think it’s more of just like finding a right match for the, for the person.

Leigh Ann: totally, exactly, which is why I’m always like, experiment, experiment, I’ll send people tapping videos, somatic flows, breathwork, and I’m like, if it doesn’t resonate, don’t get disheartened, try something else, or try it, give it a couple of goes, but yeah, this idea of, [00:09:00] I think we’re starting to get more and more accustomed to holistic health and we want our healthcare to be bio individual and unique to us.

And I think emotional wellness needs to be the exact same thing. Like we all need to curate the toolbox of resources that are right and resonant for us.

Jonny Miller: Mm

Leigh Ann: I don’t know that it’s always kind of positioned in that way. I still very much feel like in the realm of emotional work, the majority of people think of two things.

I think they think of like therapy or counseling and then meditation. And that’s kind of it. I think in the in the masses. Of course, maybe in our worlds, there’s more nuance to that, but I want it to be something where it’s like, when you’re in a moment, you’re able to go, okay, here’s what I’m experiencing and here’s the tool I need for that.

And I know exactly what tool that is.

Jonny Miller: hmm.

Leigh Ann: It might be a body based tool, it might be a cognitive based tool, a mind based, you know, all these different things, so.

Jonny Miller: Yeah, I mean, there’s so much that I love that I fully agree that, [00:10:00] um, I mean, for me, I always come back to self experimentation. And that’s really what I encourage a lot of my students and clients is like maybe helping them to design the experiments initially, but then it really is empowering to, to try something out.

Maybe it’s breathwork, maybe it’s somatic experiencing to see, you know, do I notice any shifts? What was that like reflect on it and then design a new experiment. And as you say, People will start to build this kind of eclectic toolkit of, I think of it, there’s, there’s like top down, bottom up and outside in approaches.

Top down is like the cognitive, mental, CBT, reframing, affirmation.[00:11:00]

Leigh Ann: And I think that goes back to what we’re going to get into today and what you do so much of is that education of helping individuals understand what’s happening, what they’re experiencing. Developing that skill to be able to attune to themselves. And when they have that foundation, of course we can give them some initial tools, but then they’re able to go, yeah, here’s, you know, two or three tools for when I’m in a free state, but also I now feel equipped to go out and.

experiment with some other ones as well, or to be able to go, I’m in a free state or I’m in a fight state. And here’s what I know to be best for me in these moments. But that education piece is so important [00:12:00] in empowering and equipping people to be able to have that autonomy.

Yeah, and sometimes I use this word where it’s like we’re translators, and we’re teaching people how to translate what their body’s already telling them. The knowledge, the intuition, the communication, the body is always, the mind, body, and spirit, I think, is always communicating, but we’re just not all kind of, I don’t think any of us are.

Maybe some of us are a little bit more, but it’s not something we’re taught, and I do think it’s a skill that can be learned. And so, it’s teaching kind [00:13:00] of that translation of, you know, What this thing I’m maybe physically feeling translates into maybe this, that my body’s trying to communicate.

Yeah. Okay. So we got a little bit of ahead of ourself and I’m already super excited, but I do think we need to rewind and just start with what is the nervous system? I do think most people listening are going to understand this, so we don’t need to spend a ton of time here, but I do kind of want to make take us in a linear path of what is the nervous system?

What, Systems in the body is that impacting and then regulation versus dysregulation.[00:14:00]

Mm hmm. I love it. And then just for, again, for the sake of just laying the foundation, regulation versus dysregulation, the different states that the nervous system can be in.

Mhm.[00:15:00]

Mhm.

Mhm.[00:16:00][00:17:00]

Yeah, yeah. Um, I want to ask this question because what, what in a practical day to day might a fight response, a flight response, hyperarousal look like in like tangible things people might be doing, feeling, experiencing, and then same question for hypoarousal. And I want to ask specifically because sometimes I, in my own head, fight, or excuse me, flight and freeze.

Sometimes to me, feel similar in that they can both be kind of numbing activities. I suppose, even as I’m talking it out right now, maybe the main difference is the activities can be similar, but the energy inside of us is so much different. Like I could be scrolling on Instagram and be like really activated, kind of high energy, um, hyperactive, or I could be scrolling on Instagram just like totally zoned out, really sluggish.

And maybe that’s [00:18:00] the distinguishing factor there. Yeah.

Yeah, completely. So just so we have that foundation though, what, for someone who’s like, okay, hyper arousal, hypo arousal, what does this look like in their day to day? For someone who might be like, huh, am I experiencing any of these? It could look like blank.[00:19:00][00:20:00]

Hmm.

Mm hmm.

Yeah, to the point you were making earlier of regulation isn’t necessarily, I don’t know, this perfect sense of calm and kind of zen buddha energy. It’s, it’s that resilience, [00:21:00] it’s that ability to go be in the state I need to be in to respond appropriately to the moment. It’s so funny though, because I feel like once I started learning more about the nervous system, I honestly, looking over my life, I would go.

Whoa, I think I was dysregulated Most of the time most of the time and for me I wonder if you see this in the people you work with I do feel like we all Kind of have our default response like for me. It’s the free freeze something happens. Like i’m in freeze immediately. I’m dissociating I’m getting brain foggy I’m getting a little sluggish.

I want to just like isolate myself and when I look back over my life i’m like Oh my gosh, I was in freeze a lot, but it was very functional. And in fact, anyone else in my life would have been like, Oh, she’s just so calm and composed. And you know, whatever they might have said when really it was like, I was having so many of these internal experiences that because you’ve [00:22:00] lived with that your whole life, you don’t realize aren’t there.

Like I remember in high school, we were like going to the zoo with my family and my boyfriend at the time, and I remember talking to myself before, like, okay, don’t, don’t check out, like, don’t zone out on this, on this outing, you know, and, and I didn’t know what I was saying. And I didn’t know what was happening when I would check out.

But looking back now, I’m like, Oh, I would just disassociate in these moments and that very kind of out of body, like I don’t even know what I’m saying or why I’m responding a certain way. But to that point, it did kind of shock me to when I really started observing myself, how often I was in high, usually hypo arousal, but then also hyper arousal.[00:23:00]

Yeah.

Yeah. And something I feel like I’ve noticed in [00:24:00] me is excitement can feel very dysregulating. And maybe that’s for someone like me, who’s just so used to the free state, so used to such a slow kind of sluggish energy that when that excitement comes, it almost feels like an anxiety. It almost feels like I get jazzed and energized about a new idea, a new project, whatever it might be.

And I, I, I don’t think I know how to, like, what I’ll do is then I’ll spend seven hours working on it without getting up, without eating, without drinking. And I don’t think that is totally healthy either, but it’s this kind of like, yeah, how can I feel this excitement and, and kind of let it hang out at a six or a seven and work on this project and not have to like put the pedal to the metal until it’s done.[00:25:00]

Yeah, what is your two cents on how to sit with that a little bit because that is the big big thing I feel like I’ve been experiencing lately is I’ve done a ton of work on the freeze and And especially for me in the subconscious models I work with, I know that that’s coming from a protective place of, Ooh, if I am fully in this, things are going to go awry.

I need to protect myself. I need to withdraw. And so I’ve done a lot of work to create this trust and safety with myself that no, no, you can keep moving your business forward. You can [00:26:00] pursue whatever it is you’re going to pursue. Like. And I promise you, Leanne, I’m not going to sabotage it. I’m not going to check out.

I’m not going to disassociate. So I’ve, I’ve really worked hard on that and I do it so much less, but then it’s still this sort of like that, that excitement, I don’t know how to sit with that totally in a way that I feel is as productive or impactful as it could be. And it’s, and then it’s kind of like, am I over regulating where I get, I get that excited feeling.

And then I almost feel like, Oh, I got to bring it back down again.[00:27:00][00:28:00]

I love that so much. And it’s like, practice what you preach, right? Cause I tell my clients all the time, just feel it. Don’t try and change it yet.

there’s like knowing what you feel and then there’s feeling what you feel.

Mm-Hmm.

Yes.

Mm-Hmm. . And part of the, I’m very visual, so I often have these conversations [00:29:00] with myself in my head where it’s like I’m really talking to a version of myself. But so often in that witnessing of what, what’s happening, it’s, it’s these questions of. You know, okay, what are you trying to say? What are you feeling?

Almost like you would turn to a friend when you see a friend’s upset or when you see a friend’s getting kind of down, you’d turn to them and you’d be like, Hey, what’s up? What’s going on? Talk to me. You wouldn’t be like, okay, start tapping immediately. Tap, tap, tap. You know, like we, we’d hear them first before, before trying to immediately, at least I think most of us would, we’d kind of witness and show up for them before trying to maybe bring in some tools to support them, but we don’t show up for ourselves that way.

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah, and I often ask what what version of me is feeling this because so [00:30:00] often like I’ll give a a work example when there’s so much going on and it’s overwhelmed. I think it is a, you know, what surfaces is this is a younger version that didn’t have a lot of autonomy and tools and skills that feels like she can’t handle all this.

And I need to witness that and make space for that. But then once I do, I can remind that part that she’s not the one that has to make the decisions. It’s this adult part that gets to, and this adult part has so much more tools and knowledge and support. And. And that does help sort of settle things through do you find this is something I feel like I’ve observed and because you’ve worked with so many I’d love your two cents on it.

I my hypothesis is that whatever that default nervous system responses for each of us, I think, is rooted in that first. Danger or threat that we perceived in life. And what response saved us in that moment? Because I think the nervous [00:31:00] system categorizes that so intensely. Like, okay, that that was the first scary thing we experienced and we used fight and it saved us.

So fights like the go-to every time forever. Mm-Hmm.

Mm-Hmm. . I think that is such [00:32:00] a good point. I work with. a lot of cancer patients. And so much of that work we’re doing together is, of course, how can we support you emotionally through this diagnosis? But then a lot of the work we’re doing is, might there be some past unprocessed trauma or experiences that are contributing to this Disease.

And so, so often we’re working through a lot of past stuff. And hearing you say that, I think I see that exactly in clients. It’s kind of like either anger is what’s always showing up or it’s kind of vice versa. And I often refer to them as mask emotions where once we get into it, especially for sometimes people with anger, where anger is like the dominant thing they’re experiencing all the time.

I’m like, what’s so often beneath it is grief. Or betrayal or some of these things and it’s so clear that their system is so much more comfortable feeling anger than feeling these other things. So it’s going to interpret everything through that lens of anger.[00:33:00]

All that to say it’s, it’s You know, what we, what I talk about so much with clients is how much of who we are today goes back to childhood and what we experienced, what was modeled to us, what was inherited generationally, all these different things. And, and you kind of mentioned this before, where so many of us can start to feel like, well, this is just who I am.

I’ve had clients who are like, I just thought I was an angry person. People always told me, you’re just such an angry person, or I just thought I was depressed. I just thought that’s who I am, that’s who I came into this world as, and I like to ask the question, is that, who am I, versus who did I adapt to be to survive?

And that, discovery, that detective work around it, for me, I think is really fun. It’s almost like this, playing the devil’s advocate with myself, of like, everything I assume about myself to be [00:34:00] inherent. How much of that is really inherent versus, yeah, just who I adapted to be.

So you’re saying, when we feel our emotions, that creates new neural pathways.[00:35:00]

Yeah, I love that. I think that’s such a powerful statement because, and I’m so excited because I really think over the next 10, 20 years, there’s going to be so much science coming out on how emotions are affecting us so much more than what is already available. But, you know, we’re, I think people like you, people like me, we’re over here like, Feeling your emo it’s, it’s important, it’s good, and we have some data on why.

Um, and so when new data comes out, it’s just so exciting, like, see, like, we knew it! We were telling you that this was so, so impactful to do. It’s not just like, woo woo, [00:36:00] like, yeah, you should feel your emotions, it’s probably good for you. It’s like, no, now we can start to prove it.

Oh, okay, I need to look him up for sure.[00:37:00]

Yeah,

yeah, I completely agree. It’s funny because I’m literally starting my PhD program next week in in depth psychology, which is all about the [00:38:00] unconscious and what I’m excited to study is more of this. Yeah, what, how is, how is, what is going on in our subconscious? Affecting particularly our physiology because I work so much with cancer patients.

I’d love to be able to show more of the correlations there, but I’m probably, you know, I’m three years out from designing any research studies or anything. So, but I’ll have to follow along that researcher, but it makes so much sense. Even what you’re saying of feeling our emotions allows for more neuroplasticity because I think, I feel like dysregulation is almost the opposite of that.

It’s just, it’s a rigidity. It’s a, A bracing, a tensing, a shutting down, whether it’s hyper or hypo. And kind of the belief or the sentiment beneath it is if I don’t go through this experience in fight or in flight or in freeze, something really bad is going to happen. So I have to go through it in this way.

And when we choose to break that cycle, break that pattern, and we feel our [00:39:00] feelings and we sit with them and we witness them. And then at the end of it, we’re like, Oh, I feel better. It starts to shift, you know, like melt that rigidity and allow the mind body spirit to know, Oh, maybe that’s not the only way to get through this.

I’ve been dealing with that so much lately, so much. Like I had my sixth concussion like a year ago. And so I, my memory has been so bad, especially in these interviews, which is why I’m like, Soccer, football. Yeah, something crazy with my head. No knee injuries, like most soccer players out there, but so many head injuries.

So I totally, totally feel you on that front. With all that said, we talked a little [00:40:00] bit about regulation. I’d love to go into this a little bit more. We spent some time on, hey, it’s okay to not immediately regulate. shift out of that. And in fact, in so many ways, I don’t know that it’s realistic, right?

Especially when we’re starting to get towards things like maybe more of a panic attack, where there’s very real physiological processes that are happening that I don’t know, we can just flip the switch on, although I’d love your input on that. But what I’d also like to start with is this idea of Yeah, regulation over regulating.

How kind of mainstream media is looking at this? That’s a lot I just threw at you, but initial thoughts coming up for you.[00:41:00]

Mm hmm.

Mm

hmm. Mm[00:42:00]

hmm.

Yeah,[00:43:00]

mm hmm I do want to ask specifically about that freeze state because what I also find is I might be in a free state and But I’m doing all of these You I don’t know if suppressing is the right word, but things that might typically be used to take us from a hyper aroused state down, but when you’re already down, I think we actually maybe need to do things that lift us up a little bit.

And what does that look like? Does that maybe look like A faster breathwork that’s more activating, going on a fast paced walk. What would you suggest there?[00:44:00]

Hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah.[00:45:00]

Mm hmm.

Yeah.

Yeah, what was just coming up for me is this idea of both states, hyper, hypo. There’s a sentiment beneath it. Hyper, the, the sentiment is if I slow down, Bad things will happen. And I think hypo is the reverse. If I speed up, bad things will happen. And I don’t think it’s let’s go from zero to a hundred, but maybe kind of gently, of course, witnessing sitting with it.

But then when we start to maybe do some of the things that the brain is like, no, no, no. If I do that, it’s going to be horrible to be able to, for example, for me and freeze, it’s like, I need to just lay here on the couch. If I, if I made myself a cup of tea, that would just be too [00:46:00] much. And so if I actually.

After that witnessing, take a second to do that and show my body. Actually, this is okay. This is helping you get restored. Yeah, it’s kind of, what is that statement or that belief beneath the protective mechanism? And can we start to demonstrate that that belief might not be true through some of these practices, I think is what we’re doing.

With that, I do want to talk about, we were touching on this for a second, This idea of, okay, I’m feeling something unpleasant, whether it’s hyper arousal, hypo arousal, I need to do something immediately. And is it realistic? I’m thinking I guess both ways, but I do think a lot of people, when they think about this stuff, they think of hyper activity, the hyper arousal states wanting to bring themselves down.

They might be experiencing racing heart, you know, shaky hands, sweaty palms, racing thoughts. And is it realistic to, you know, [00:47:00] Do something and like, those are going to stop immediately.

Right.[00:48:00]

Yes. I’m just gonna, I’m gonna sit down in the grocery store and start tapping away. No.

I think it’s worth sitting with because sometimes what I hear clients, you know, come back to me with is, you know, I, I started doing the breath work, but I didn’t feel like it was working. So that made me more anxious. Like, Oh no, I’m not calming down. Oh no, my heart rate is still up. I guess it’s not working.

And that almost activates them more. And what I try to explain a little bit, there is. There’s a process, right? Especially when we start to get pre deactivated, our body’s releasing cortisol, adrenaline, noradrenaline. When that’s been released into the bloodstream, it doesn’t just like, poof, vanish. [00:49:00] There’s a little bit of a process the system has to go through so we can start some of these regulating practices and especially if we’re like, I don’t know, maybe a five out of a ten.

We can probably restore whatever that regulation looks like pretty quickly. But if we’re really super dysregulated, the idea that we’re going to be able to go from 10 to zero in 30 seconds, I don’t think is realistic. And, and assuming that it is, can heighten the problem.

Yeah. Yeah.[00:50:00]

Mm hmm. 100%. On that note, I would love to hear, with regard to panic attacks specifically, what is going on, as far as you understand, what is going on in the nervous system that might be different from maybe what we might deem as just kind of more typical hyper arousal? Is there something significantly different that’s happening?

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Mm hmm.[00:51:00]

And then same question on the reverse, which is, for someone who maybe feels like they’re in the midst of a panic attack, is it, do all the same things you would do for a different type of dysregulation, or is there anything different you might suggest there?[00:52:00]

Mm hmm. Okay.

Mm hmm. I love it. Talking about, we’ve talked a bit about when I’m in a certain state. What do I do in that state to help restore calm composure regulation? But what about preventative nervous system support? What, like, if you were to say, Hey, as my client, here’s my ideal. If you could do this every day, whether you’re [00:53:00] dysregulated or not, this is going to be so supportive of your nervous system.

What might that look like? Quick, quick, quit your job, move to the Caribbean.

A hundred percent.[00:54:00]

Mm hmm.

Yeah.[00:55:00]

Mm hmm[00:56:00]

I do have a thought, but, um, yeah, what I’ll say is, you know, what I often say to clients is like, even if it’s five minutes, five minutes in the morning, five minutes at night, and even if you had a great day, do something, do something to support your system, whether it’s the breath work, the meditation, the tapping, the yoga, a nice slow walk.

Um, because I also think we [00:57:00] need to reframe this idea of we only do something when we’re in. A poor moment or a down moment or an activated moment. And I think if we have a habit of supporting our system, it’s going to mitigate so many of those moments, you know, that whole prevention concept. Um, yeah, but I guess my, my question there, and then I’ll share my two cents on it is, yeah, what does that look like at a minimum for you in terms of the actual practices?

We’ve got sleep, you know, nutrition, diet, some of those sunshine, but Whether it’s something like yoga, breath work, meditation, tapping. Is there a minimum where it’s like, Hey, you really gotta be doing this at least like 10 minutes a day for it to be impactful? Yeah.[00:58:00][00:59:00]

I love what you’re saying though about the fluidity. And I talk about this often too where it’s like, It’s not just what, what works for me forever. It’s what is aligned for me right now. This week, this month, and I have this sort of pact with myself where anytime any of my habits become like a chore I have to do, I know it’s time to change something.

And so I, I love my walks, but as soon as I get bored of a certain route, I know it’s time to choose a different route. And I just think there, so many of us get caught in this laundry list of self care things that almost just become added chores. And I really think that there are so many resources out there that the self care we’re doing should always be fun, should always light us up.

If it’s not, it’s time to shake things up.

So the last thing I’ll say, and then I’ll land this plane, is [01:00:00] you were speaking about capacity. We do these things because it builds nervous system capacity and You know, I’d be remiss and my audience would know that I didn’t say this of, yeah, I think you’re, you’re doing work with clients. That’s looking at how can we use body based practices, outside in practices to build capacity.

And then I’m asking those questions of, and what’s all the unprocessed repressed stuff that’s taking up your capacity. And this is, this is kind of the analogy I use with cancer patients a lot where it’s like, Hey, we want as much of your capacity free. To go tackle this thing. But if you’ve got bags and bags and bags of repressed emotions and unsaid words and misalignments in your life, you only have 5 percent of your capacity left.

So let’s start clearing that away. And that’s more of that, you know, cognitive base for me, specifically subconscious based approach to it, which we need both. And this is what [01:01:00] I’m so passionate about communicating. I think sometimes it can start to feel like, well, it’s, it’s, It’s all cognitive work. We just need to do that.

That’s going to solve everything or it’s all body based work. That’s going to, if you just do nervous system stuff, it’s going to soothe everything. And I’m very much more like, no, no, we need to bring in all the pieces of the puzzle when we need them. And in fact, what I find, and this is why I encourage so many clients to do nervous system work and breath work and meditations is when we do the body based work and the cognitive based work together.

It just completely supercharges, superspeeds the process. Mm hmm. Mm

hmm.[01:02:00]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, because what I, I see it on both ends where I see people who, usually people who come to me are like, I’ve been in therapy for 18 years. It hasn’t really done much for me. And we’re going deeper into that subconscious. And likewise, you see people who are like, I meditate every day, an hour a day, and I’m still, I still hate my life and I’m like so anxious all the time.

And it’s like, yes, because we’re only looking, we’re only addressing one piece of the puzzle. And so that’s great. Keep meditating. And your body might be saying there’s another piece that needs to be looked at here.[01:03:00]

Completely. I call it, I call it soothing versus solving. Tons and tons of soothing practices and we need those. But if we’re never doing solving work, if we’re never asking, why was I dysregulated? Why did I need this? We’re just going to need to soothe and soothe and soothe more and more and more. So. I love it.

This was fabulous. Thank you so much, Jonny. Just for the audience, where can they find you? Everything will be linked in the show notes anyways, but just for those listening, where can they find you? And also, I think you’ve got another cohort of your course coming up on the 7th? October 7th?[01:04:00]

I love it. Like I said, we’ll make sure we link it all in the show notes. How often do you run the course? Okay. Okay, so just for anyone who might miss this one, it’ll be back in the spring. Yeah. I love it. Well, thank you so much. This was absolutely phenomenal.