THE ACCRESCENT™ PODCAST EPISODE 176

The Accrescent Podcast Episode 176

[00:00:00] Hello, happy Monday. Welcome back to the Accrescent Podcast. I’m your host, Leigh Anne Lindsay. Here we are. I can’t believe we’re already in February and January felt like a bit of a wild ride in a lot of ways, I think individually and collectively for many of us. But here we are in today’s episode is really, really special for me because I actually don’t talk explicitly a lot about the work I do with individuals experiencing cancer or chronic illness.

And in today’s conversation, I’m talking specifically about cancer. I mentioned tidbits here and there, but it’s not something I’ve ever recorded a full episode on. And so I asked Kelly if she would come on the podcast to help facilitate. a conversation around what it is I do and the frameworks and the perceptions I’m looking at when I’m working with cancer patients to not just, one, help them through this diagnosis, right?

It’s so turbulent, sometimes scary, [00:01:00] overwhelming. And so in that, helping create as much peace, calm, and clarity as possible as they go through a diagnosis. But, the much, much deeper side of the work I do with cancer patients is looking at and helping Uncover and excavate and identify potential emotional root causes to the disease, to the illness.

Are there emotional contributors? Is there past unprocessed turbulence, past unprocessed trauma, generational trauma, etc? And so this is my first attempt really at trying to depict what that work looks like when I’m sitting down with a cancer patient. I wasn’t planning on releasing this episode so soon, but I just felt so lit up by it that I decided to release it even earlier than I had initially planned.

And I would just say that if this resonates with you or if you know someone going through a diagnosis, This is information that I, I’m sharing with every cancer patient I’m working with and it, I [00:02:00] feel so passionate that I want every cancer patient to be able to have some of this information and there’s so much more to come.

If there’s someone you know you think could really benefit from hearing this conversation, please consider sending it along to them. So with that, please enjoy this conversation between Kelly and I.

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So check the show notes below for a link to the It Just Works deodorant capsules, as well as a discount code. All right, so Leanne, what led you to work with CancerBation? So the very long story short is that back in 2020, I was diagnosed with an early stage breast cancer. And, I mean 2020, that was such a wild time already.

But through, I think, just total providence or kismet energy, I was introduced to the Cancer Center for Healing here in Irvine, California. And at the Cancer Center, Dr. Keneally, they take a very, very integrative, holistic approach to treating cancer. And the long story short is they have something there called Evox therapy, which is a type of voice mapping biofeedback therapy that they have all of their patients do.

Dr. Keneally is really insistent that all her cancer patients need to be [00:05:00] doing emotional work and looking at emotional root cause. And so that’s where I was introduced to even this idea that emotions and repressed emotions. Past trauma can contribute to a cancer diagnosis, but I was also introduced to Evox therapy and it was so absolutely life changing for me that I got trained.

I got certified a year later and then I launched my own practice and now I’m almost four years in. I’m getting my PhD in depth psychology and healing. So that’s kind of the journey is I had my own, you know, very mild experience with cancer compared to now what I see working with patients, but it really was this like patient to practitioner journey that has led me to where I am today.

And it sounds like something that you hadn’t really thought of before, right? That connection, which I don’t think many of us have really made that connection between disease and our emotional state. [00:06:00] Um, why do you think emotional and subconscious work is such an important component of the healing journey, cancer or whatever we’re kind of healing from physically?

Yeah, I think maybe I’ll start with even some statistics, which is one, only 5 percent of cancer is genetic. We know this. That means the other 95 percent is lifestyle based. And lifestyle includes our diet, our hormones, our toxic burden, our emotional burden, it includes all of those other things. And I think that’s something that in conventional oncology isn’t being talked about a lot.

Most of the patients I work with are coming to us at the cancer center saying, yeah, my oncologist told me, no, there, we don’t really know what causes this. There’s no root cause. You’re just unlucky. Sorry. And then, right, there’s the three conventional modes of treatment, radiation, um, chemotherapy, and then surgery.

And that’s not to say, that’s [00:07:00] not a blanket statement, there are oncologists out there who are looking at deeper root causes, but we take it just a whole step further of looking at, really asking this question, right? A lot of people don’t know that it’s not that you got cancer. We actually all have cancer cells in our body.

And that’s something many of us don’t realize. I did not know that before you first told me. Yes. And it can be a little jarring at first, but actually it’s, it’s a very hopeful thing because the reality is we all have cancer cells. Most of us, our body is able to fight off those cells and expel them so that they don’t take over and become a cancerous.

tumor. So the question we’re asking when someone comes with a cancer diagnosis, isn’t why did you get cancer? The question is what is going on in your body such that you are no longer able to fight it off. And really, if we were to look at this in kind of an overarching broad theme, it’s what is taking up your body’s [00:08:00] capacity, right?

And oftentimes there’s physiological things. Taking up your body’s capacity, too much of the bad stuff, not enough of the good stuff, right? Physiologically, it’s what are the pathogenic load? Are there parasites? Is there mold? Is there heavy metal toxicity? Are there hormone imbalances? Are you not getting enough nutrition?

All these different things. But a part of what is taking up my capacity is also that emotional energetic burden. That we know now there’s more science coming out to show how emotional turbulence past trauma can start to have an impact on our physiology, but sometimes the analogy I like to give with my patients I work with is when we’re talking about capacity, right, your, let’s just say like you have a little internal army that’s there to deal with all the different stressors of life, the heavy metals, the parasites, the toxic chemicals [00:09:00] in the air, foods, et cetera.

Um, Well, if they’re all off fighting different things and that burden becomes greater and greater and greater, at some point, there’s just going to be no army guys left to fight the cancer cells off. And so in a way it’d be really just becomes this math equation of What’s taking up capacity? What do we need to do to clear that out?

But I’m working really, really specifically on that emotional piece and what is emotionally, energetically taking up capacity? Where’s it coming from? And same thing. What do we need to do to clear it out? But the point I was making there is sometimes I like to give this analogy of the repressed emotions, the unprocessed experiences, the unprocessed trauma, the limiting beliefs that we maybe haven’t looked at deeply.

It’s like they’re in a closet, and all day long, a part of our psyche and energy is going towards keeping that closet door shut. [00:10:00] And how much, how much is in that closet? And how much of your energy and capacity is that taking up day after day? we want, especially when there’s a cancer diagnosis, we want as much of their capacity free to be able to the cancer.

And so, you know, again, in my goal is to go, let’s gently clear out some of what’s in that closet so that if you’ve got 50 percent of your capacity, keeping this emotional closet shut all day, every day, you only have 50%. To fight the cancer. Yeah. So that’s kind of the broad strokes I think people don’t realize sometimes also how full their closet may be already, right?

Like they’re just kind of moving through life And they think to themselves i’m more or less. Okay, my childhood happened. I grew up i’ve got daily stressors and yet their closet is actually bursting at the seams and maybe you don’t actually realize that until You get into a setting and [00:11:00] have the opportunity to work with someone such as yourself completely because I’d say it’s 50 50 the individuals I work with where percent are coming and going.

I know my emotions are a part of this. They, like, feel it so intuitively and they’re like, let’s get to work. I already have five things I want to talk about. Or there’s some things that are really, really present for me. And then the other 50 percent are people coming in going, look, I’m interested in this.

I think there’s something to this, but also I feel like I’ve processed everything that was 20 years ago. That was years ago. I’m over it. It doesn’t really trigger me anymore. And that’s where this unconscious piece of the puzzle really comes in so big. Working with the unconscious mind has been really the foundation of my whole practice from day one, because we know we have our conscious mind, but then the unconscious is what is actually responsible for 80 to 95 percent of the decisions we make in a day.[00:12:00]

But traditional. Conventional psychology really is only working with that conscious piece. And so when we think of it in these terms, if we’ve only ever done conventional psychology or therapy or counseling, you’re addressing five to 20 percent and we’re leaving, you know, 80 to 95 percent of the deeper root causes, completely uncharted, completely unexcavated.

So that’s a big point I’d like to make. And with that, this idea that the intellectual mind really can move on quite quickly. And so when those, when those individuals come to me, I’m not dismissing that reality of, Hey, it’s not triggering me anymore. I think I’ve moved on. And I agree with him on an intellectual level.

That totally seems true. And we want to look deeper and see, are there, is there more lingering in the psyche? Are there more imprints? And. Yeah. [00:13:00] Imprints on my unconscious. Are there more repressed emotions we haven’t looked at that maybe haven’t been fully processed and released? It’s just time has sort of dimmed the intensity of their weight or they’ve been in that closet so long that now the closets become a vault and everything in there.

It’s so muted, we can’t really hear it. Was that almost your experience coming into, you know, your own cancer diagnosis and the EVOX journey? I think to an extent, absolutely, because I’ve always, I mean, you know, I’ve always been so introspective. So I’ve always been very interested in why am I doing what I’m doing?

But what started to surface for me in that cancer journey, and I’ve shared this in other episodes too, is the repressed memories. of being sexually abused as a child. And I mean, what a perfect example of, I, my whole life, I had these weird kind [00:14:00] of inklings and sensations and just somatic experiences, sort of body memories that would come up around things.

and topics of this area. And yet, I didn’t have any clear memories of it happening. So I never gave it a lot of time. But through EVOX, paired with this unconscious work, these memories started surfacing. And once I started working with a therapist of my own and kind of talking to some of my other family members, more pieces of that puzzle started to come together.

But I think it really speaks to. We don’t know what’s in the unconscious until we purposefully try to look at it and we all have an unconscious so it needs to be explored at some point. I really do think whether you have cancer or not, doing unconscious work should be a part of all of our learning.

healing journey and just kind of growth and expansion journey. But that was absolutely a part of my own experience was I had [00:15:00] repressed things that were so deep in the vault that my unconscious buried to protect me that I, I a hundred percent believe the root, the core root of my breast cancer was that sexual trauma and some of the other physiological imbalances that were going on.

But I think that was really the core. For me, right? Well, just like we do, you know, we can’t see within our bodies. Right? So we go to the doctor, we do blood work, we get our checkup. We go through the motions to understand what we can’t see and to kind of piece together what that’s saying about our overall health.

physically. But to your point, here is the subconscious work that we can’t see, that we need to do emotionally, and it’s so often overlooked in our full health picture. 100%. And something that I get a little irked with is that In the oncology world, maybe, maybe they’ll recommend, Hey, this is a heavy [00:16:00] diagnosis.

This is going to be a long journey. Maybe you want to work with a therapist to help you through that journey, which by the way, isn’t happening all the time anyways. So it’s a start that some oncologists are even recommending that, but this goes so much deeper than that. And when I sit down with patients on, in those first sessions, I talk about these two paths that we must walk down during our time together.

over the course of sessions. One is that path of what I call present day turbulence. So absolutely, I’m working with patients to go, Hey, where is their overwhelm, confusion, conflict, maybe even in this journey, in the choices you’re making. And really, how can we get you more, the most peace, calm, and clarity as possible to go through this diagnosis.

So that’s absolutely a part of it. But it goes so, so much deeper than that of really looking at, then once we’ve got you present day on stable, calm, [00:17:00] confident ground, we have to go do that deeper detective work to look at potential emotional root causes. Yeah. Okay. So that’s kind of how you navigate, you know, with a cancer patient, you’re starting off with the immense turbulence of receiving a diagnosis and then kind of working backwards from there.

For the most part, first sessions Especially if it’s a new diagnosis, right? If it’s someone coming in, on occasion, I get people who are now wanting to be preventative or, for example, they’re in remission and they’re wanting to now go process the trauma of cancer itself, which is a whole other, whole other thing.

But if it’s a relatively new diagnosis, I tend to stay with present day in that first one or two sessions. But at some point in those first couple of sessions, we’re taking a really deep inventory of all turbulence, if you will. And this is where I start to ask the patient or the client a lot of questions around, you [00:18:00] know, what are some past traumas you’re aware of?

Even if you think you’ve processed them, let’s just get them down so that we know I’m asking about generational trauma. I’m asking about birth trauma. I’m also asking about what’s happened within the last 8 to 10 years. This is also something Dr. Keneally talks a lot about where from the time it takes a cancer cell about 8 to 10 years to become a cancer, a tumor.

And so we’re always really particularly interested in that timeline as well. It’s very fascinating how often the people I work with, there is some really intense trauma or chronic stressor within that eight to 10 year timeline as well. So I’m asking a lot of questions about all these things to create kind of a roadmap of here’s some of the places.

We’re going to want to touch in with at some point on this journey, but what that looks like, it becomes very clear to me once we’re in session, where we need to go first. And sometimes that is okay. The turbulence from [00:19:00] present day is so overwhelming and all encompassing that that’s where we need to start just to get your mind spirit on more solid ground.

But I have a pretty good sense of where we need to go. And this is also part of my process working with the subconscious is Giving really pointed questions or prompts or imagery to even allow the unconscious itself to reveal Where does it want us to go first and that is, you know, really a part of it Is that maybe one of the bigger struggles for patients that you see just even tapping into or connecting with the subconscious?

That’s a good question. I mean, on occasion, maybe it’s, it’s more difficult than most, but I do think because I’ve been doing this so long, I do have a way of being able to, first of all, sort of preface it for them and say, Hey, we’re, we’re observing what’s coming up in our thoughts. Be an observer. Just get curious.

I think there’s something about [00:20:00] my process paired with Evox that you can probably attest to this too, allows things to surface that don’t normally surface. Yeah. So I, I, I actually do find that for the most part, it’s pretty easy for patients or clients to be able to sink into that with my guidance paired with box therapy.

And then things will just start surfacing so organically where clients will say, okay, this is crazy. I’ve spent 18 years of therapy on this topic and never had this thought come through or never had this epiphany or this clarity or this memory surface organically. Yeah, that’s definitely my experience.

So I can attest to that firsthand. It’s, it’s very true. And it’s pretty miraculous when you’re in that moment. Yes. You know what I’m thinking is I might pause quickly to talk about Evox just in case anyone hasn’t heard of that. Cause I’ve mentioned it a couple of times now. Evox is a technology, just for those who haven’t heard, and I know many of my listeners probably have, [00:21:00] but there’s really two components to Evox therapy.

The first is something called voice mapping, and then the second is biofeedback. So what we’re doing with voice mapping is As I’m in session with a client or patient, I can actually measure the tones in their voice as they’re talking to get a graph of what emotions are imbalanced. And then once we’ve identified those imbalanced emotions, we are outputting into the body the frequencies that have been found to help support the balancing and the release of those emotions.

And why I love this, and you know, as a patient when I was going through it, I started to think, Oh my gosh, I think this is the tool I was meant to use to help people. Cause it pairs so well with how I work and kind of my, my flow and my gifts and working with the unconscious. But how do I use that? How does that pair with this work?

A couple of things. One, We’re talking, we’re often, almost always talking about heavier things [00:22:00] and what we’re trying to navigate and clear and excavate and release. And that can get the nervous system activated, but I find that EVOX and that biofeedback is very soothing and regulating to the nervous system, which I think is So profound and a part of a part of the secret sauce of why people have so many epiphanies.

Because the reality is, for example, like traditional talk therapy. And by the way, I want to be really clear. I’m not knocking it. I think traditional talk therapy can and has been absolutely life saving for people. It’s just a piece of the puzzle, right? What I’m doing with unconscious work is just another piece of the puzzle.

So it all has its place. I think that’s important to say. But with that said, When we’re talking about something that’s activating consciously or unconsciously, and our nervous system starts to get activated and go into a stress response, literally parts of our brain shut down. Our hearing changes, our vision changes, our digestion changes.[00:23:00]

We start to produce adrenaline and cortisol and noradrenaline. And the body starts to go into a defense state. And so this is one of the reasons why I think sometimes talk therapy can be very slow going is we’re sitting down and we’re starting to talk about something really triggering. Our nervous system gets activated.

Our brain starts to shut down and then we’re not able to see things as clearly. I like the analogy of if, if the mind and the psyche is like a tide pool, in the ocean and we’re trying to look into these tide pools to see what’s going on in here. But if waves just keep crashing and crashing and crashing in these mountains, it’s so hard to get a clear view of what’s going on.

And so EVOX is like calming the waves, calming the storm. So that we can look into these tide pools and get so much more clarity that can be difficult to get. And I really do think that’s one of the reasons why clients have so many epiphanies is the [00:24:00] nervous system, even though we’re talking about activating things, is getting all of these safety signals and staying for the most part, pretty calm.

And then that pair, these prompts that I’m giving to clients and patients that really help us then, you know, access even more of that unconscious state. Right. And I would just add that having gone to a lot, many, many years of traditional talk therapy, leaving a session, feeling activated, going through, you know, and revisiting a painful topic, feeling really emotionally activated, takes a long time to calm the nervous system back down from.

And so what I found was I would get these anxiety, like a sense of anxiety, even coming up to an appointment, just feeling like, Oh, like I feel activated. You’re automatically a bit less open. You know to sharing to going there and to maybe excavating a bit further Um, and so I felt like I was just picking at a [00:25:00] scab over and over again and reopening a wound That would bleed and hurt rather than kind of coming to a place of calm and ease where I could really You know, kind of address what was beneath the surface.

And I think that’s been a huge gift to me. Um, and I know others in Evox who are able to leave a session just through the tool itself, feeling to your point, very calm, I can move forward in my day, even though maybe I talked through something that was very challenging. I’m able to return to work or to my family feeling still engaged with life and present to it rather than totally emotionally drained and, you know, unsettled.

Yeah, completely. We call it the Evok Zen, where most people, right, most people, most sessions leave feeling saying, I feel so much lighter. I feel calm. I feel grounded. And that’s so special, even though we might have had a really intense session on some heavy topics. It’s so profound that we can go to [00:26:00] those deep, heavy places.

and they can still leave feeling so much lighter. And what’s really cool is the patient or client gets to leave with their report of the graph of imbalanced emotions. There’s little descriptions that kind of talk about each of those emotions and how they can be impacting us emotionally, spiritually, physically.

But with that said, I don’t necessarily need those charts and those graphs to know what’s going on in the unconscious. And this is why I think Evox pairs so well with what I do, because as we’re going through session and the patient is talking, there’s so much I hear in the undertones of what they’re saying where.

They might be talking about something over here and I’m kind of like, Ooh, I’m hearing, I’m hearing undertones of generational trauma here. Let’s explore this. And then that opens up something totally new for them. Or this, you know, there’s some things here that sound almost like a ripple effect of birth trauma.

To me, can [00:27:00] we explore that a little bit deeper and oftentimes even in the undertones of what they’re saying or in the patterns they’re describing in their life, it’s very easy for me to be able to identify. Here’s, here’s the limiting beliefs in your psyche that are still continuing to persist that we need to look at and start to shift.

So I think they pair so well together because I like to say EVOX, EVOX makes the mind, body, and spirit so much more malleable. Right. We’re trying to clear things and it maybe takes that icicle and just melts it and softens it a little bit. I’m really good at identifying what needs to be released and what needs to shift.

And then I think that pairs so well with Evox that just makes everything so much more malleable. That what we need to shift can clear through so much quicker. What we want to integrate can become embodied and integrated so much quicker as well. Right. And not just malleable, I think you’re also a mirror back to [00:28:00] someone, right?

Because to your point, you hear generational trauma and what they’re saying, but if I’m the patient sitting there, I don’t hear that in my tone or how I’m speaking about my own life story at all. So you’re just a really gracious and I think, um, exceptionally, uh, kind of wise mirror to hold up to us and say, Hey, this is what I’m hearing.

This is what I see. I think it can be kind of shocking. I know I said that, but wow, I never thought of it that way. And, and you kind of have a unique gifts at being able to kind of hold that up and say, this is what I’m seeing. And I think maybe you see it too. And I think Evox to your point really does make.

The spirit open to that too. You know, there’s, there’s less of a defensiveness. I don’t need to feel like, oh, well, she pointed this out. You know, there’s a, an open heartedness that I think really does come even from the EVOX tool itself because the subconscious does feel so safe to sit there vulnerably.

Yeah. Well, first of all, thank you for that compliment. That is so [00:29:00] generous. Absolutely. Because also my approach to this work isn’t that. your mind, your body, or your spirit is out to get you. I really do believe the subconscious is only ever trying to protect us. The body is only ever trying to protect us.

So when there’s cancer that has become overridden, it’s not that your body failed you. In fact, it’s that your body has been fighting for so long, all these other things going on. Again, the pathogens, the pollutants, the chemicals, the. past trauma for so long that it’s like, I want to keep protecting you, but I don’t have the fuel left to do it.

And so we’re, I do think that’s a big difference in my approach is we’re not coming in guns blazing. Like what part of me do I need to kill off and get out of here? No, it’s. But how is my subconscious trying to protect me? What does it think it’s protecting me from? How can we go back and identify the origins of this and [00:30:00] expand that to be?

And I just think when we approach the mind, body and spirit in that way, it responds in a completely different way too, because there’s such a knowing going on here. And when we approach it from this aggressive sort of you failed me, I need to beat you into submission. I, I think, you know, physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, all the things that just causes the, you know, the defenses to go up even more versus approaching it in this really gentle, empathetic, compassionate, even grateful way of, I just want to understand what’s going on and what you’re protecting me from, et cetera.

It’s like we, it interacts with us in a whole different way. Almost in an integrated way, you know, like instead of looking at them all as separate parts and the body failed, but my mind’s still here and the spirit, like where it’s all one, you know, ecosystem and really treating your diagnosis as one [00:31:00] ecosystem.

affecting all parts. And also your treatment plan from that perspective is so huge. And to your point, I think they start to work in harmony, almost like the gears of a, of a bike or an engine, right? They start to really click into place and work together towards that greater healing. Yeah. And it’s so funny because even in the holistic world where this emotional work is much more widely accepted still, it’s maybe 1 percent of the process right now.

Right. Even at the cancer center. Patients might spend six hours or seven hours out of their eight hour day at the cancer center doing things to address physiological issues. And then maybe they spend one hour with me addressing potential emotional energetic imbalances. And so even within the holistic world, I feel there’s more education I want to do around Oh, it’s got to be so much more than just one percent.

And even that one percent [00:32:00] can be hugely impactful. But to your point, we can’t separate it out. If there’s cancer, we can’t just be addressing one facet of the body. We need to be looking at everything because everything is contributing and everything’s being affected. And so even within this holistic world, I’m like, first of all, most people come and see me once a week.

And I’m trying to say you need to be doing something every single day for your emotional, energetic, and spiritual self, even outside of sessions. And I’d like that something to be, you know, ideally more than just like a five minute meditation or something, something a little bit deeper. Although there’s days where we do that too, but especially when we’re in the thick of treatments, again, kind of thinking of it in this way.

There’s a physiological self, an emotional self, a spiritual self, all those selves. are yearning and craving for support and [00:33:00] attention. And think of it even in this way, right? If there’s like three people in the room with you that you’ve been given to caretake, one represents the physical body, one represents the emotional, one represents the spiritual, let’s say.

Yeah. And all we’re doing is like this physical one. We’re giving them all this food and rest and hot baths and coffee in a mug, like all the things. Right. And then these other days we’re kind of like, Oh, I might spend five minutes with you guys later. Yeah. Doesn’t make sense. Does it? Intentional guidance.

And this brings me to another point, which I think is worth noting that that is a skill. And I don’t think this is talked about enough of, I can sit here and say, I want people to be spending some amount of time every single day on their emotional, spiritual, mental health. And, and somehow just assuming that they’re magically going to know how to do that.

And then people feel disheartened because they don’t. [00:34:00] But the reality is, and I say this a lot with clients and patients is emotional hygiene, mental, emotional, spiritual tools that support wellbeing are skills that we can learn that ideally we would have been taught in childhood and modeled by our parents.

And don’t even get me started on. the educational system and how I wish all of that was a part of our education as kids. But I say that to like, don’t feel disheartened if you’re like, I want to do that, but I have no idea where to start. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Most of us had no training in emotional, mental, spiritual wellness.

So. That’s also a big part of what I try to do. So a brand that I just discovered this year and have been absolutely obsessed with, it is the fullest saffron latte. I actually had Nikki Bostwick, the founder of the fullest on the podcast. That episode is one 56 for [00:35:00] any who want to go back and listen to it.

And I’ll make sure it’s linked in the show notes below as well, the episode. But after I had this conversation with her, I immediately ran out and bought. The saffron latte powder and it is so delicious I drink it every single evening and it’s become such a beautiful ritual for me because i’m such a beverage girly.

I love having Different beverages to drink throughout the day, but to also have something in the evening that has no caffeine Such clean ingredients, but what you’ll guys hear if you haven’t listened to that podcast episode yet Is that the studies have found recently that saffron at a certain dose at a certain dose is Just as effective as Prozac for helping Anxiety, depression, ADHD and so it’s something that I have absolutely loved myself.

I feel like I’ve noticed a difference in my general countenance being even more uplifted, calm, grounded, especially for me in this time of a lot of change. [00:36:00] And it’s something I have been recommending so much lately to clients, to some of my cancer patients, because of how clean it is. And there’s so many other benefits outside of the mood support, the anxiety, the depression, it’s super anti inflammatory, anti cancerous.

But it’s become kind of my product of the year that I’m just like, oh my god, how can I get everyone to try this? So they have the latte powder, which I absolutely love and the dosage of saffron in the latte powder is the highest But they also have capsules that you can take that still meet that minimum dosage that has been studied And the capsules are a little bit, a little bit less expensive as well.

So, really encourage you guys, check out the link below in the show notes for discount codes, holiday sales, and give the fullest a try. And when you say that, do you mean, you know, for example, spending time journaling every day? Or what are some examples of things that you would encourage people to [00:37:00] take up, some of those habits?

Oh my gosh, completely. Well, and this is a part of what I’m building out. As you know, um, the, the, my online membership that’s coming very, very soon. That’s meant to help guide clients and patients in that and provide so much support outside of sessions. So that when I say, Hey, I want you to be supporting yourself.

They can go into, there’s a part of the membership called the soothing sanctuary. That is a huge library of guided breath work. Okay. Emotional freedom technique meditations, somatic exercises, nervous system exercises, sound baths, all these beautiful resources that kind of really equip them and it’s going to be really specific, which I’m so excited about to the point of like, hey, you’ve got an upcoming.

surgery, do the EFT tapping meditation for pre surgery. A lot of these are going to be really, really specific meditations to help support cancer patients in really specific parts [00:38:00] of the journey. But to that end, there’s so many different ways. to support emotional, mental, and spiritual wellness. And I think that’s also where it becomes overwhelming because I think maybe in the broad stratosphere people think of maybe journaling and meditation and therapy.

Right. There’s so much more nuance to that. And that is also a part of the education I try to bring to sessions to offer clients that support outside of sessions is we want to become a master of ourselves. Meaning, yes, there’s journaling, there’s breath work, but kind of like what I already said about the soothing sanctuary, there’s somatic exercises, there’s vagus nerve exercises.

There’s so many different types of meditation. Transcendental EFT. So there’s so many different things, even within this realm. And I am very much of the mindset that I want to expose clients [00:39:00] and patients to as many of these different ones as possible so that everyone can start to get a sense of, first of all, what are the ones that resonate with me the most?

And I think that’s important because, for example, Breathwork doesn’t really resonate with me. I don’t love it. I don’t find it very impactful. I know, and I love it. You always say that. And I’m like, it’s amazing. It’s transcendental. Yes. And someone else might be like, Oh my gosh, Breathwork is my jam. It does so much for me.

But that’s why I also think sometimes people can feel disheartened because when only two or three things are really highlighted in the mainstream media, And they try those two or three things and it’s not very impactful. Then they kind of go, Oh, well, I guess there’s just no tools for me. So there are hundreds of different tools out there.

And it’s all about, I think, exposing ourselves to as many as possible, but then also being able to develop, and this takes time, but develop a deeper felt sense with yourself where now, for [00:40:00] example, for me, when I’m feeling uneasy, when I’m feeling turbulent, I can tune into myself and go, what is it? My spirit needs today.

Is it a long journal session with myself? Is it a long, slow walk? Is it a, you know, a somatic flow? Is it something physical based? Is it a breath work? And, and so there’s even a deeper attunement there that’s happening that I love to develop that skill of being able to attune to oneself. And because you’ve You know, curated and experimented with so many different things.

You’re able to go, Ooh, I’m feeling turbulent and uneasy. And here’s the 20 tools I could go to. And as I’m attuning to myself, I know it’s probably these one or two that are going to be most impactful. Sure. I’ve often found that that thing that I get to the end of the day and I get in bed and I think, gosh, I didn’t do that.

That’s probably the like, keep note of those things. You know, [00:41:00] those things that you’re like, Oh, I didn’t take a walk outside. Oh man, I didn’t do it. Whatever kind of pops into your head right before bed might be the thing that your body saying, Hey, just a little reminder. It would be great if you might. a tune in this way.

And I find that I often have a few ideas right in that moment of like, I look back on my day and think, gosh, darn it could have or should have. Now shoulds aren’t always a great thing, but sometimes there’s a little clue in there around what my body’s craving and what little nudge I might be getting.

And perhaps I received it all day long, discounted it. And then right at the moment of, you know, Utter peace and quiet. I’m shutting my brain off for the night. It pops back up again. So I’ve been trying to take little notes on that. Like that’s what I need to, to integrate into the day to day, um, just as ideas.

Yeah, well to me, the subconscious, the body, mind, and spirit is so intuitive and I like to say communicative. Yes. Always communicating. We’re just not great at translating that. Yep. Paying attention. Part of [00:42:00] being a student of the self is, sometimes there is that intuition of just, gosh, I’ve just been craving a walk on the beach, or I’ve just been craving, Naps recently or craving breathwork or craving going to a sound bath.

There’s something in that that’s not random. How can we listen to that? But to that end, I think where a lot of people are at initially in this journey is they feel an unease. They feel turbulence, but. Because no one has given them that training on this tool and this tool and all the different resources.

Sure. It’s hard to that, and it’s kind of hard to translate what is the thing that will this turbulence the most right now. To this. Yeah, what’s even out there. Sure. Yeah, I, I completely agree with that. I think to your point, you are building up this library of tools and solutions, uh, for people because what we know, I mean, I’m just, I [00:43:00] feel like I’m just scratching the surface and I’ve been working with you for, you know, two years.

So, um, there’s so much to learn and to be exposed to out there, but it can feel very overwhelming and it’s, I would say it has felt, uh, like a relief to know where to go to kind of be my one stop shop for like, I know with Leanne, I’m going to get. You know, five or six new ideas that I wouldn’t have thought of before because life is busy.

And honestly, I’d rather you say, go do a coffee enema that will solve your problems. Like that’s a physical thing. I know I could just go do and I’ll just do it. But you know, when you start feeling an inner turbulence and you’re not sure what your go to might be, I think that starts to feel like, well, it’s easier to just shut down and avoid.

And the shutdown is therein lies the rub. So, um, Um, Yeah, I think that’s a really cool thing that you’re you’re investing in and I know we’re all gonna benefit immensely from that. Um, okay. So one big question I’ve been wanting to ask and throughout this conversation is, [00:44:00] you know, you see people with all different kinds of cancers.

Have you noticed any correlation between type of cancer, location in the body, and also maybe Circumstances, past turbulence, any kind of connection there, have you noticed? Yeah, it’s kind of eerie, honestly, sometimes how, like, how the themes repeat from client to client. And I also want to talk about, don’t let me forget, I want to talk about sort of when people come in, some of those other things.

That the turbulence that the diagnosis itself can cause and themes I see with that, that sometimes aren’t always talked about or mentioned that don’t seem super obvious, but are important to address. But yes, I, I most, I see a lot of breast cancer, right? I think the three I’ll talk about immediately are breast cancer, colon cancer, and then like ovarian prostate cancers.

These are, these are the three so far that I have seen the most. [00:45:00] Recurring themes with from patient to patient. Breast cancer, first of all, that’s, that’s just what I see the most of, but there’s always themes of this woman being like the absolute utter caretaker for almost everyone in her life, completely overextended, often a loss of a sense of self and individual identity, you know, she’s the mother, she’s the wife, she’s the daughter, and she’s lost Her individuality and just really this sense of like, I am giving to everyone but myself.

And I think the body then stepping in and saying, Hey, I can’t continue in this way. This isn’t sustainable. So those are some general themes there, right? Like being able to balance motherhood with my individual identity. Wifehood, sisterhood, all the things, but it’s this general theme of, they are completely [00:46:00] overextended, very hard time setting boundaries, healthy boundaries for themselves with friends and family.

And that’s a lot of what we work on there, but there, these patterns are so clear to the, to the extent that. The ones I’m going to share today, I haven’t worked. Like, for example, what I just talked about with breast cancer, I haven’t worked with a single breast cancer patient who didn’t have those themes.

And that’s not to say, I guess I want to be clear here. It’s not diagnostic, right? That’s not, maybe there isn’t. Someone out there experiencing breast cancer who those themes don’t apply to but right thus far in everyone I’ve worked with I’ve never worked with a breast cancer patient who didn’t have some element of that the other one colon cancer this is what I’m seeing a lot more of and In general, there’s a question I always like to ask with colon cancer, which is what is it in my life that I have not been able to digest or let go?

[00:47:00] And that will usually get us started right away in a session and processing. But I also kind of in tandem with that see themes of deep, deep chronic fear in one way or another. And so it’s often paired with this. There’s this thing that I cannot, I just can’t. Get over, I can’t make sense of, I can’t process, I can’t let go of, and there often usually is some element of deep, deep fear paired with that.

And then the other one I’ll speak to, and then maybe I can also speak to just bigger themes that I ask all my patients about, but um, prostate and ovarian. And similar to the other two, I’ve never worked with a prostate or ovarian cancer patient who didn’t have some type of sexual trauma. And it’s just so interesting to me how stark that is.

Again, every single one I’ve worked with. without a doubt, hands down has had some kind of sexual trauma, whether that’s, you know, something as extreme [00:48:00] as rape or molestation, or even to the, even to the extent of my sexuality has been repressed for so long. I’m not able to fully embody my full self in that way.

So it’s not always a super severe. sexual trauma, but there is some element of that in everyone I’ve worked with there. Aside from those, right? And I’m always very interested in where the cancer is showing up. If it’s in the lungs, we’re going to be talking about grief. If it’s in the stomach or that area, we’re going to be talking about fear.

There’s definitely themes here. If it’s in the brain, brain cancer is one I’ve been seeing a little bit more of lately. We’re going to be talking about chronic overanalyzing, chronic anxiety, not being able to shut the mind off, not being able to stop thinking or worrying or planning. But in general, there’s kind of these three or four areas I always ask about, even outside of the themes I see with that particular [00:49:00] cancer, which is, is there unprocessed or repressed grief, guilt, and resentment?

Grief, guilt, and resentment are, I always come back to those and there’s often themes of that as well. And I’m sure, you know, perhaps underneath guilt and resentment, grief swims, you know, beneath all of that, right? It’s totally such a through line for. Thank you. That’s actually the fourth one. Yeah. Yeah.

Guilt, grief, resentment. Um, and that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, totally. I, I, I totally see that and I think it’s, um, I think it’s fascinating to think about how it shows up in certain parts of the body. Do you feel like that’s more of a, like when we’re not processing things throughout our life or we’re unable to, for whatever reason at the time, do you think things settle almost physically [00:50:00] within us in a way, like emotion, sort of a body, um, keeps a score Yeah.

Type of thing. Completely. And there’s more research. A great book is Molecules of Emotion by Dr. Candace. Um, the body keeps scores. Another great one. But yeah, I mean, really, this idea that emotion is energy. It is measurable. I mean, that’s what we’re doing with Evox is I can literally measure the emotion in your voice.

So it’s not, it’s not just an idea. There actually is a tangibility to it. And when that energy is not allowed to move through, it must be stored somewhere. So, yes. That unprocessed or repressed emotion is absolutely getting stored in the body. And kind of traditional Chinese medicine, Ayurvedic medicine points to certain emotions sort of go towards certain organs more so than others.

And if you ask [00:51:00] me, my, my theory, right, and it’s a theory thus far, but I think about this often, right? Why does cancer choose a certain organ over another? And to me, that speaks to, well, there was already a process. a weakening in that organ such that the cancer could take root there. And that’s where I start to wonder, is that where the emotional component comes in?

Even initially is I have all this deep unprocessed grief that’s getting stored in my lungs. That’s making them weak. Then over years with maybe a poor diet, a lot of toxicity. that’s building up and taking up capacity so that when that cancer is looking for a place to take root, it’s finding that weakness in wherever that emotion is being stored.

Does that make sense? I feel like I didn’t explain it does. It does because I think to your point, emotions can weaken the [00:52:00] body. In a almost like a measurable way, right? Because you can measure emotions. I think that is a great explanation for why perfectly healthy people can get sick, right? People who do all the detox and Live a non toxic life like you can be doing all of that work, which is incredible and necessary and supportive And yet there still may be that weakening in your system through all this unprocessed emotion allowing cancer to thrive.

And I think that was going to be another question, which is, you know, people will say like, well, you know, she smoked a pack a day for 70 years and not a, not a lung, drive a lung cancer in her, but here I am. And. I think what you’re kind of saying is, well, that may be traced back down to, are we getting to the root of our emotional state and our subconscious work?

Yeah. And there’s probably a bigger conversation to be had there too, of, remember, we’re looking at total capacity. [00:53:00] So maybe there’s a woman who smoked cigarettes every day for 70 years, but for whatever reason, there, there weren’t, there weren’t all these other things taking up that capacity. Right. And that could be where the genetic piece like that, like certain percentage might come into like your genetics or bodily makeup and whatnot.

Yeah, totally. Right. We also know with like MTFHR gene mutations, maybe some people detox better than others. So that’s where I’m. I never have, I don’t think I ever will, unless something changes, say that emotions are the sole root cause of cancer. I really see in the patients I work with that it is a culmination of multiple contributing factors.

So I’m not even here saying we’re trying to find the one thing that caused this cancer to take root. We’re saying, Hey, There’s probably multiple things that all kind of came together to create this peak capacity, [00:54:00] toxic burden, such that this cancer could take root. I’m here looking at what might some of those emotional contributors be.

Right. And then. Make sure you’re working with other professionals to look at some of the physiological contributors which are specifically at the Cancer Center for Healing is what they’re doing over there. Right, right. But your emotions play a part, right? They, they play a part in your whole body’s ability to do its, you know, job of properly protecting you, which is really fascinating and something I think, you know, I would say.

Probably everyone with a cancer diagnosis is immediately attacking that physical part. What do I need to do physically to support myself? But, you know, to your point here, maybe this, the emotional state is, uh, a contributing factor, but often. Perhaps not given the, uh, the look that it needs in order to encourage health and healing.

Yeah, I think so. And I want to, you know, I want to start to have some testimonials from those who are willing from some of the [00:55:00] cancer patients I work with because you see the change. And this is actually what I want to study in my PhD is, I really want to be able to test and demonstrate how by measuring like circulating tumor cells, how this unconscious Work and emotional work can not just help you get through the diagnosis, but truly help be a part of the healing journey, right?

Legally, we can’t ever use the word cure, but be a part of that healing journey. And I, you know, one day I would love to be able to study that in a more specific quantitative way of the people who are doing emotional work during their journey. Not just are there tumors going away, but compared to those who aren’t doing emotional work, are there circulating tumor cells less at the end of a certain period of time?

Is their rate of recurrence less or much longer at a certain period of time? Because that’s what I see. I kind of [00:56:00] subjectively, anecdotally, in my practice, see that. That the people doing this deep emotional work are healing faster and recovering and not having recurrences and experiencing, not just the piece that comes from physical healing, but then the piece of, Oh my gosh, I’ve unburdened so much that I’ve been carrying consciously unconsciously.

So I anecdotally see that I’d love to be able to prove it with more quantitative. But in the meantime, we’ll have to just Stick with, you know, some of those patient and client experiences, uh, but that’s why I want to start talking about this so much more is I see how life changing it is for the cancer diagnosis, but also just for their life in general.

And then the ripple effect it starts to have on their relationships, on their kids, on their family, et cetera. And the, the sheer shock and turbulence of, of the diagnosis, right, to just, [00:57:00] I think that alone to have some sense of relief from that would be, I mean, that is priceless. Yeah. Yeah. And we might have to get into this another time, but some of the themes, right, of course, oftentimes what we’re working on initially is just the total overwhelm.

And. We know, we know trauma and sometimes getting a cancer diagnosis is very traumatic and can impact the neurobiology of the brain. Sometimes people’s brains get stuck in fight flight, get stuck in freeze. So sometimes a part of that initial work is helping. their brain settle, their nervous system settle, processing some of the key traumas.

But there’s also sometimes a lot of confusion that patients will come to me to sit through of, I don’t know, this doctor is telling me to do this. That doctor is telling me to do that. This person says they healed from a keto diet. And then this person saying they completely healed from a vegan diet. The overwhelm and the [00:58:00] confusion and being able to help process them through that and help them get a better sense of what’s right for me.

What can I have peace with? What can I have peace with right now at this time? And, and kind of in tandem with that, sometimes there’s family conflict that I hate that that exists, but that is something that comes up a lot more that I don’t think is talked about enough, either of family members, loved ones, partners, even not agreeing with.

their treatment choice. And the hurt, the grief, the anger, the tension that that creates for everyone. And again, being able to help them navigate some of that as well. And then sometimes sessions are really specific where I just had a patient this week, who’s having open abdominal surgery for colon cancer on Tuesday.

And we, we did a whole session just preparing for that surgery and sitting with some of the fear, the anxiety, the tension around that, preparing her mind, body, and [00:59:00] spirit for that surgery. And at the end, she just was like, Oh my gosh, I feel so much better. The tension in my body is gone regarding this. So also one of the ways I use, you know, I support patients is pre surgery, post surgery, addressing some of those.

More specific things that turbulence that the diagnosis itself has caused versus what is the pre pre existing turbulence that might have caused the diagnosis. Likewise, the diagnosis itself is causing new turbulence that also needs to be addressed. And these are some of the supports that will be available within this new community that you’re building.

So that’s really exciting as well. Well, absolutely. Because there’s just only so many I can actually work with one on one and, and in my hope is that it serves a couple purposes, right? First of all, my clients who are working with me one on one. They’re having this additional support that they can lean into outside of sessions so that [01:00:00] I don’t want my patients to develop a dependency on me.

I want to equip them to start to be able to do this work for themselves. And then yes, absolutely. When they need that deep, deep guidance, deep support, I’m there to be able to take them to places. Maybe they can’t go, but it’s super important to me that I’m. equipping them to do this work and empowering them to do this work themselves.

So there’s going to be lots of guidance, right? There’s the soothing sanctuary with all the meditations and the somatic and the nervous system, et cetera. But there’s also going to be a guided workshop that is going to try to replicate what I do with patients in session, helping you identify. First of all, what might be some places I need to touch in with helping guide them through how to reprocess that on this unconscious level.

So the attempt is going to be as much as is possible to replicate what I do with patients in session so that my patients can start to do that outside of sessions, but also either [01:01:00] those who are waiting to get an appointment with me can get started Or those who might not be able to get a session with me at all can still benefit from so much and get, you know, a taste and some guidance in the way that I’m managing this work.

Huge, huge. And we’ll have to check back in when that is, uh, launched and the community is fully growing. We’re really excited about it. Thank you so much for sharing all of this wisdom with us and, and just kind of opening up the, the lid on this topic, which, really is how our bodies and our emotions and minds, it’s all interconnected.

It all has a huge impact on our ability to heal from whatever we’re going through. So thank you so much. It’s such a joy. Thank you. It’s wild to think that I’ve been doing this for years now, and this is really the first time. This is the first podcast I’ve ever recorded going deep into the work I do with.

patients and clients. And I hope to record more because we were even talking before we got on the recording of [01:02:00] like, Oh, there’s so many other facets of this, right? This is just like the big picture. There’s so many other things I see when working with those experiencing cancer, chronic illness, so many themes that I’m like, I really, I need to be talking about this more.

So yeah, I’m super grateful. Thanks for kind of helping facilitate this conversation that I’m really excited for people to hear.