THE ACCRESCENT™ PODCAST EPISODE 179

TA Ep 179 FINAL

[00:00:00] Hello, happy Monday, everybody. I feel like I want to ask everyone, how are you doing? How’s it going? It feels like I’ve been gone for so long, having been away for my PhD program a week ago. Um, it feels like it’s been a month for some reason, which is why I’m kind of sitting down to record this intro feeling like, oh my gosh, what’s going on?

What’s How’s everyone been doing and just wanting all these updates as if I’ve you know For some reason been gone for weeks and weeks, even though it was really just a week So it feels so good to be back back with clients back in a rhythm back doing podcast interviews and having really really special guests on the show and with that said today we have Dr. Allie McLane on the podcast, who is a California licensed naturopathic doctor.

In her practice, she focuses on the treatment of anxiety, women’s hormonal health, and gut health. She’s passionate about the connection between [00:01:00] the mind, body, and enjoys working with clients on the psychosomatic aspects of health while also supporting them with root cause oriented naturopathic medicine.

This conversation is so in line with some of the other recent episodes that have gone up, like Dr. Erica Matluck, where I’m just finding that I’m being drawn to more and more guest experts who take this really, I mean, truly integrated approach of mind, body, and spirit. It’s not just holistic, physical medicine.

It’s, we’re looking at the entire being. And so, today’s episode, we do talk a lot about physical contributors to anxiety, but what I loved about Dr. Allie, Dr. McLane, is her emphasis on, we need to be looking at all of these pieces of the puzzle, similar to Dr. Matluck. Otherwise, we’re really missing core, core facets.

So with that said, please enjoy this conversation with Dr. Allie McLane. A product I [00:02:00] use every single day are the It Just Works deodorant capsules. And there’s a number of things I really, really love about this. First of all, finding a truly non toxic deodorant that actually works is super, super hard. But even a non toxic deodorant is still only addressing a symptom of a deeper problem.

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So check the show notes below for a link to the, it just works deodorant capsules, as well as a discount code. Well, Dr. McLane, welcome to the Accrescent community, the Accrescent podcast. I’m so excited to have you on today. I’m very excited to be here.

Thank you so much for having me, Leigh Ann.

I have followed you on Instagram for a little bit and Kelly, my podcast coordinator, [00:04:00] I Begged her to reach out to you to have you on.

So it’s really, really special to get to have you on and spend some time talking about your approach and really just like what you’re seeing in practice, when it comes to anxiety. It’s funny. I was thinking about, I was talking to some of my clients the other day and the difference between what you learn In a textbook and in a classroom versus what you discover as a practitioner in the field. And there is, I just have found like there is so much I have discovered. Such a difference. Yeah. And I always want to keep discovering. So that’s a lot of what I’m excited to hear from your experience. I’m jumping ahead with all that said, give us a little introduction.

Yeah. I know these questions are always so hard because you’re like, Oh my gosh, what do I include in this? But yeah, well, I’m a naturopathic doctor. I’m licensed here in California. I work with women primarily. I do have some male clients, but primarily my practice is with women. Um, I kind of like to describe [00:05:00] the way that I work with people as kind of like this triangle or this triangulation.

of three different primary concerns that all seem to be interrelated and always kind of show up together in one way or another. And that is gut health, mental health, and hormones. So that’s kind of where my focus is. I like to work with people and help them address the mind and the body components of the root causes to those concerns.

And yeah, I’m really, really happy to be here today having this conversation with you. So thank you for having me. Absolutely. Oh my gosh. It’s going to be so wonderful. So with that said, I think what I want to, what I want to start with is looking at, because you even said kind of physical, mental, emotional, hormonal, gut, all these different things.

And I think I might be helpful if we break it down into what are you seeing? What have you learned can be some of the physiological contributors to anxiety? And then likewise, what do we see being some of the, you know, emotional, mental, maybe [00:06:00] spiritual contributors to anxiety? Absolutely. Yeah. And I like that you asked me the question with those two together, because a really important thing that I like to explain to people is that oftentimes people will be all in on one or the other.

And it’s that bi directionality, that simultaneous contribution that is really important and really key because our body is giving information to our brain, to our mind, and vice versa. And we know, we see that illustrated with the gut connection, right? With the mind, the brain gut connection. Um, and so, So, starting off with the physiological contributors, um, I mean, there’s, there’s so many, right?

From the naturopathic perspective, we’re really good at being investigators and understanding what is the root cause. We’re just, one question begets three more questions, right? We’re diggers. We’re, we’re wanting to understand. And so, with that perspective, I’m usually looking towards the gut, towards the hormones, and then also towards nutrient status.

I can kind of start with nutrient status [00:07:00] and zoom in on that for a little bit. Okay. Um, there’s the more obvious ones like low ferritin or iron deficiency that can manifest as a very physiologic anxiety. So if somebody has low iron, what’s going to happen is their heart is going to have to start working harder, right?

And then that’s going to lead to heart palpitation. So that’s a physiologic symptom. symptom of anxiety, but that can have a brain physiology loop and can create more anxiety in the mind, right? Why is this happening to me? Why, why do I feel this way in my body? Why do I feel so tired? But my, my heart is pounding.

So that would be one example of that. Um, there’s another kind of field that I’ve been interested in and I’ve been using. in my practice for a while. And that is the field of nutrient psychiatry. Um, so it’s looking at things like, like copper and zinc and methylation and how those can actually impact the activity of our neurotransmitters.

So not so much the level, but the activity. So for example, um, if somebody is what’s called an [00:08:00] under methylator, which looks at their global methylation status, methylation is basically just the light switch on how you turn on or off the cellular function. Methylation is involved in all kinds of processes in our biochemistry.

But if somebody has low overall levels of methylation or they’re an under methylator, that’s associated with low serotonin activity. So if that person were to be put on a serotonin promoting drug, like an SSRI, for example, they might actually experience some relief. From the anxiety standpoint, not to say that that is the, that is the treatment that that person should go to.

Everything should be individualized to the person, um, but there’s a way that we can actually address that from a naturopathic lens using actual amino acids. Um, vitamins, minerals, you know, and addressing it from the root cause, which is really kind of cool. Um, and then of course, like if somebody were to go on an SSRI and they’re an under methylator, they might still experience the side effects that come along with a drug.

It doesn’t mean that [00:09:00] you’re going to have a walk in the park with it, but it would mean that you would tolerate it well. Whereas certain people who have the opposite. style of methylation. They’re over methylating. They were to be given an SSRI could be really dangerous and can make them feel really bad and possibly even suicidal.

So, um, it’s kind of that bio individuality applied to somebody’s biochemistry. So that would be one physiologic lens to look through. I mentioned just, for example, low ferritin. Um, from the hormonal standpoint, we have hyperthyroidism, even hypothyroidism. People with autoimmune disease, like Hashimoto’s, they can kind of go on the swing from hyper to hypo.

And so when you get that elevated thyroid activity, those thyroid antibodies start to increase, that can really look like anxiety. High cortisol, of course, as many of us are aware of, that stress hormone, that’s more of like a prolonged anxiety, and that inability to really rest, to get deep rest and feeling like your, your body is just really taxed, right?

From long, long term prolonged stress. [00:10:00] Um, and then from the gut health side. standpoint, inflammation in the gut leads to inflammation in the brain. So that’s kind of my general overview of it, but yes, yes. I want to go into this even deeper because I also know my audience loves the like, okay, specifically what is going on in the gut and it’s so different for each person.

And then we get into a little bit more of how do we start to reverse and balance some of these out. But I want to actually go back to what you were saying about the methylation because that is really catching my ear. So there’s something about when you don’t methylate properly and, and there’s tests you can do to find that out.

Yeah. We’re not able to use serotonin in the same way, or can you expand on that? Yeah, so it’s basically the serotonin activity is decreased if you’re under methylated. So it’s what’s happening at the synaptic level in terms of how that’s being, how those genes are being expressed. Um, and so if you’re an over methylator, you actually have too much serotonin activity and it’s not just serotonin, [00:11:00] it’s dopamine, it’s GABA, it’s, it’s other neurotransmitters that are, that are at play.

Um, so in my opinion, like even if somebody does want to go on a medication, which I think everyone should have a choice to do whatever they feel is best for them at the stage of life that they’re in. Um, do I think that, you know, psychiatric medications for anxiety long term are the best idea? Maybe not, but maybe during a stressful period of somebody’s life and then working to address the underlying root causes just because of the side effects that I see.

Um, but with people who, you know, do want to go on it, it would help to understand what their methylation is. So it’s a test, um, if your listeners are curious, it’s a test that you can do at LabCorp. It’s only through LabCorp, and the test is whole blood histamine. It has to be whole blood. And so, um, there’s a, there’s a reference interval for that, but if it’s, if it’s higher, It’s an inverse relationship, that whole blood histamine is elevated, that’s correlated with under methylation and vice versa.

Mm [00:12:00] hmm. Now, is that something, though, that feels like it’s only, it’s only relevant, I feel like I already know the answer to this, but it’s only relevant when you’re taking pharmaceuticals, or if you understand your methylation, how that’s impacting serotonin, then there’s maybe different supplements or other balances we can take.

Exactly. Supplements and other things you can do, and then also things to avoid, right? Because if somebody is an under methylator, giving them folate or niacin might push them more in the wrong direction, whereas giving them methionine or SAMe might be more supportive to them. Okay. This is the first time I’m hearing about methylation in relation to anxiety.

Yeah. Yeah. Look up the work of Dr. William Walsh. Okay. I’m writing some of this down. Yeah. Already. Yeah. And Dr. Albert Mensah is probably the leading doctor and he’s mentored me in this a bit. So is that a standard test you do with all clients? Uh, yeah. It is. It’s part of my workup. Okay. Because I’ve heard about methylation more in regards to [00:13:00] detox.

The snips. Yeah. Detox, or maybe even like nutrient uptake, but not in relation to this. So that’s really, really fascinating. Yeah. And a lot of people, when they’re talking about methylation and they’re talking about SNPs, what they’re talking about is just your genetic predisposition. So just because you have a SNP or a predisposition, it doesn’t mean, right, we know with epigenetics, it doesn’t mean that that’s getting activated.

So you could have an MTHFR. Um, and then you can also be under methylated. And so you could be taking methylated folate for a while, and you might feel better for a little bit of time. And this is a lot of my patients feel this way, and then they start to feel worse because it’s that global net methylation that needs to be worked on.

The MTHFR is just one part of that. So it’s, it’s a little more complex, but really like understanding the individual and where they’re at. You can look at a homocysteine as well, but that’s, that’s a really important player because I’m not going to. I’m not going to see, see anyone with anxiety and not assess for [00:14:00] those things.

Yeah. Oh, I love this because that’ll be something that I recommend in my practice. I’m really looking at the mental, emotional, spiritual components of the contributors, but I, I’m in this world and so I’ll, I’ll often say, Hey, if we’re working on anxiety, this is the piece of that puzzle we’re looking at.

There are other pieces of this puzzle that you need to make sure you’re addressing with your other, you know, team members. And practitioners. Yes. Absolutely. Okay. I’m, I’m already like, Oh, I want to just dive into all of that now and how do we correct it? But I’m trying to put myself back and go, let’s start with what can the contributors be?

And then we’ll get to correct. Absolutely. Yeah. So. Can we talk a little bit more about hormones though and how maybe even how that starts to have this like long term trickle effect and then maybe even the ripple effect that starts to have because I think that’s something too that can be really subtle.

I was talking with a nervous system practitioner a few weeks ago and, [00:15:00] and we both had this experience where it just felt like all of a sudden I was incapacitated. I can’t get out of bed or I’m just so fatigued, so exhausted, and something we were talking about there is, it’s not that that just all of a sudden happened.

It’s not that one day you were fine, the next day your hormones went chaotic. It was this slow burn. Yeah, you just, you’re at, it was the tip of the iceberg that you could barely see, and there’s so much underneath that. Um, so are we, are we referring more to like stress hormones? I think we’re kind of getting into the stress hormone conversation now.

Yeah, yeah, stress hormones, maybe even how if, if thyroid goes unaddressed for long periods of time, maybe how that can ripple and impact anxiety. Yeah, yeah, so. We need to go. Yeah, yeah, so, um. You know, the way that I see it and many practitioners who are more holistically informed see it with, with hormones is [00:16:00] that stress is kind of like the top of the, of the pyramid or actually kind of the bottom of the pyramid because it’s the foundation and then the sex hormones and the thyroid hormones maybe are closer to the middle towards the top because you have this backbone hormone called pregnenolone, um, And it’s the hormone that builds all the other hormones.

And pregnenolone has to build cortisol as well, right? And so if you have this fight or flight chronic state in your body, and you’re needing to use a lot of cortisol to kind of mitigate that, then your body is going to preferentially make cortisol. Right. Um, and so sex hormones are kind of going to fall to the wayside and become less of a, less of a preference.

And so this is like the classic picture that I see. I can kind of get into, I’ll, I’ll touch on thyroid in a bit, but like with. women that I work with. A lot, a lot of times when they have anxiety, they also have really bad PMS or even PMDD, which is the more psychiatric manifestation of PMS. [00:17:00] And so with that cortisol dysregulation, that’s really pulling from their ability to make progesterone and progesterone is kind of like that.

anxiolytic or anti anxiety kind of resting hormone that keeps us calm in our luteal phase before we have our period. Um, now there’s more nuance there because now there’s discussion around actual GABA receptors in the brain and those potentially being mutated in certain people. So it’s not just like, oh, this person has low progesterone.

Let me give them progesterone in their luteal phase and they’re going to feel better. It would be great. If that worked for everyone. And it does work for some people, but some women that I’ve seen, unfortunately feel worse with progesterone. And that has to do with their brain’s response to it because progesterone is, is turning into a different thing that goes to our brain.

It’s called allopregnenolone and that’s interacting with GABA receptors. And so with that, we have to make sure that that person is even tolerant of that allopregnenolone, right? [00:18:00] So, um, that all kind of starts with stress in my opinion. Right? Like chronic stress. So, um, oftentimes people will come to me and they’ll be like, Dr.

Ali, like test my, my sex hormones. Like what do, what do we have to fix with my hormones? Like what’s my estrogen progesterone? Am I estrogen dominant? And you know, maybe they are estrogen dominant. Maybe they do have low progesterone, but the root cause is not to start with addressing those things. The root cause is actually to address the stress piece.

Stress is everything in nervous system. Like you said, I think that’s so important. And then gut health as well, because we need to be able to like excrete hormones. Um, I’ll let, I’ll let you interject. I just, I love it because what’s interesting is there’s sort of these layers of root cause, if you will, where.

a lot of practitioners in the holistic world compared to conventional medicine, right? They’re going, Oh, your hormones are off. Okay. How can we get you on a bio identical estrogen or a bio identical progesterone, pregnenolone or whatever it is. [00:19:00] And feeling really good. Like great. We’re getting the root cause for hormones are off.

We’re going to get them balanced. And it’s all coming from a really good place, but even then you have to be asking the question. Why are my hormones in balance? Something is causing this. I think I, I really do believe nothing is happening randomly. Exactly. We just maybe don’t always know what that real cause and effect is, but.

Yeah, bringing it back to, and I feel this way a little bit because I take a natural thyroid supplement of being like I want to really figure this out one day and it probably does go back to some chronic stress and early childhood trauma and just some things that I’m continuing to work through. Yes.

But yes, this idea of. And what’s the root cause to that root cause. And if we’re just kind of replacing the hormones now, maybe that’s appropriate in some cases, but I think for the vast majority of us, it’s asking that deeper question. Yeah. And I could even say that, you know, just to be fair and play devil’s [00:20:00] advocate with myself, I can even say that about the supplements I give, right.

For methylation support, any kind of supplement. Right. And the thing is like we live. Well, most of us, most, probably most people tuning into this podcast live a really fast paced life. And so we’re just not living like our ancestors did. It’s just not natural. Right. And we have so much, not only individual trauma, but also collective and generational trauma that many people are just trudging through life and haven’t really worked on.

And the more that I do this. The more that I realize that that’s really where it’s at. And that, that’s where I’ve been. That’s where I’ve been going lately, you know, and that’s where I’ve been, been diving into. It’s like, yes, functional medicine, naturopathic medicine. Yes, bread and butter. Awesome. But if you truly want, like we can do supplements, we can do nutrition, we can do gut health, but if you truly want to take it to the next level, like the work you’re doing, we got to address the subconscious mind.

We have to address the trauma. We have to understand. Where [00:21:00] this is coming from and why this is being perpetuated. So, right. A thousand percent. I love, it’s so nice and validating to hear you say that because something I think about all the time. I have a huge, I have got a bit of a shtick with, I love nervous system.

I educate on it all the time. And also this, the posts you see on Instagram where it’s like six week nervous system reset. Yeah.

Do the nervous system regulation tools and gather those tools and learn those skills. But also same thing, if we’re just soothing the nervous system and never asking the question, Why is my nervous system chronically dysregulated? Exactly. You’re just going to be stuck soothing for the rest of your life.

You’re on the money. That deeper thing. And I think that even shows up. You know, I work a lot with the subconscious, subconscious beliefs, really like the imprints of chronic stress or past trauma on the psyche. And if we think about like, yeah, maybe you had an experience 20, 30 [00:22:00] years ago, but if for example, a belief got ingrained in your psyche of, I, I’m not equipped to protect myself.

And so there’s this kind of danger, fear filled belief running in the background of your psyche all the time. Yeah. How does that ripple out into the hormones you produce and the way you’re able to digest and the way your nervous system functions, all those things. So yeah. And these are things that I’ve been diving into as of late.

I think one of the things that. I’m not afraid to admit is that I’m always learning and the more I learn, the less I know, you know? And so, um, some of the things that I’ve been diving into recently are like German new medicine, family constellations. Um, I don’t know if you’re familiar with like family constellations and Bert Hellinger.

And so I did a whole training last year on that. And you know, that blew my mind because when I used to look at trauma through the lens of an individual lens, but it’s actually very collective. It’s [00:23:00] actually very systemic. Um, and so that’s, yeah, like you said, like that’s where it’s at and we can soothe the nervous system all day and I can, you know, patch holes with, with supplements.

And it’s, I want to give myself a little bit more credit. I’m not just patching holes, but I feel like if I’m not, I’m not doing my diligence. If I don’t have that conversation with somebody, because what happens is oftentimes the anxious. Clients will just want their anxiety solved. Because there’s this feeling of hypervigilance, right?

I’m not safe, and so can you just help me be safe? Because they don’t have those resources to feel safe in their own body. And so, there can be like a tendency to like, order these labs for me, tell me what’s wrong on these labs, and then give me the supplements to fix me, and then I can just go about my life living it in the same way, and I don’t ever have to go to these scary places in my mind.

Yeah, completely. I mean, what, [00:24:00] what is this? Experience. I’m having trying to communicate to me. What are the deeper messages in that? Yeah. I mean, a thousand percent, but also to your point and to validate you further, it’s, it becomes this kind of nasty downward spiral where maybe there’s an emotional instigator that then creates very real physiological things that then causes more emotional turbulence that then causes more physical impact.

Yes. And I do think Bringing in resources on a physiological level can aid even in the emotional processing to your point. Like if I just feel so awful and fatigued, I don’t even have the capacity sometimes to do that deep emotional excavation. I might need to. Absolutely. Yeah. It’s the two need to be married together.

And I think You’re right. Like sometimes people are not ready to start there, especially if the trauma is very deep deep rooted and they feel really crappy in their body So, [00:25:00] but we should always begin with the end in mind. Yeah, we should always begin with knowing that Eventually, there’s this dark closet that we’re gonna have to open and it’s actually not that scary as you probably Are aware right once you once you actually go there and you and you do that work it becomes This lightness, right?

And you’re, and you’re like, Oh wow, I was really like, it was really so tense and holding on, but actually, Oh, I can breathe now. Um, and that’s, and that’s what I want for people. You know, I, I don’t want to perpetuate more of the same. I want people to break free. And when I ask myself, like what my intention is when I work with somebody, it’s that I want people to break free.

Yeah, I love that so much. It’s beautiful. Okay. Now I got a little bit. Yeah. Again, kind of want to like map out. Here’s some of the things that might. start to cause issue, but then here’s how that ripples out. My audience is very familiar with, you know, parasites [00:26:00] and any number of different things that could be going on down there.

But yes, what are you seeing? And then how does that lead, right? Maybe there’s parasites in the gut, but how could that actually be causing or contributing to feelings of anxiety? Yeah. Um, so parasites would go under the umbrella of dysbiosis, right? Critters. that are in an abundance that they really shouldn’t be there.

Um, and so when we’re dealing with any kind of dysbiosis, we kind of have to suss out what kind of dysbiosis it is. And it’s really helpful to do testing to figure that out. Now, um, parasites are going to be harder to test. Um, it’s Usually when I’m starting to work with somebody and their gut parasites is not the first place that I go.

And I know other practitioners would strongly vehemently disagree with me. And that’s, that’s totally fine. Um, but the first thing I’m trying to figure out if there is a dysbiosis is, is it in the small intestine? Is it in the large intestine, right? Small intestinal bacterial overgrowth or [00:27:00] fungal overgrowth, um, can manifest.

Um, as different symptoms, a lot of times, oftentimes because your small intestine is, is located in that center, kind of like around your belly button or your large intestine, it’s more like on the peripheral of your, of your abdomen. So, um, it could be abdominal distension, bloating, gas. Um, issues with motility, meaning like too many bowel movements or frequent bowel movements.

Um, uh, lots of, uh, lots of diarrhea, lots of constipation. Um, issues with malabsorption oftentimes because the small intestine is where all those microvilli are. Right? Those long finger like structures that grab onto nutrients from our food. So if we have a bunch of bacteria and inflammation there, it’s really hard for us to absorb that.

So those are kind of the symptoms that you would see. Sebo and I actually see a lot of people with when I say Sebo, I’m also referring to it could be methanogen or, or fungal. There’s, there’s different critters. Um, but that’s really like something that I see quite often because it goes hand in hand with a fast paced lifestyle and lots of stress.

[00:28:00] And so really the first thing that you have to do there is determine like what kind it is. and then treat it usually with some kind of antimicrobials. Now, a lot of times I see when people are getting treated for SIBO, they have recurrences of SIBO because the root cause isn’t being addressed. Right. So this takes us back to like, why does this person have, I mean, there are some.

There are some things that are maybe a little bit less, you know, um, easy to work with, like if somebody has, you know, um, EDS for example, or Ehlers Danlos, so they might have like chronic, you know, gut issues, and that’s more of a genetic thing, um, if somebody has, you know, if they’ve had surgery down there, okay, but in most cases, it’s a functional cause, and it has to do with like nervous system dysregulation, stress, um, diet, and so if we can address in motility as well, Um, if we can address those pieces, then we can prevent it from coming back.

The other thing is like when people are using antimicrobials to treat either a small intestine or a large intestine [00:29:00] dysbiosis, it can, even with the herbs, it can really throw off the large intestinal microbiome. Right? And we only have so many of those bugs, and if we just kill them all, then they’ll go extinct.

Right? Like, we can’t, like, round after round after round of antibiotic or, like, you know, oregano capsules or berberine. Like, that can only get you so far, and then we start to see low levels of bifidobacteria, and we don’t want to push people to the point of like where their actual microbiome is depleted.

So when we’re treating the gut, cause I’m, I’m seeing a lot of very aggressive, you know, gut protocols in terms of the killing, when we’re treating it, we want to balance the killing with the nourishing. Of the microbiome because those bugs do so much for us. So, um, from the standpoint of how a dysbiosis can create issues, especially as it relates to anxiety, one of the main, uh, players there is something called LPS or lipopolysaccharide.

It’s basically a [00:30:00] bacterial endotoxin. It’s a component of a bacterial cell wall. Those things can go into your, your, into your bloodstream, create inflammation in your brain, create system wide inflammation. Um, just drive up your immune system in general, which is just going to make you feel funky. So if you do have that going on that does need to be treated, but it has to be treated.

with reverence for the rest of what’s going on in, in your gut. So it gets a little bit like a little bit tricky in terms of, cause we, we could just like blast, you know, we could just blast everything, but it’s like, do we want to do that? Because when I’m working with somebody, I’m not just thinking about what are we going to do right now?

It’s like, what’s happening five years from now? Is this person going to be in a good position five years from now? Yeah, well completely. And, um, And also, it’s so funny, again, kind of bringing it back to some of this emotional stuff, like sometimes the blasting doesn’t work, our systems, it’s just so over [00:31:00] activating, almost a little bit traumatizing, on I think like a subtle energetic level, maybe not on like an intellectual level.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And like for people that I work with, oftentimes I work with really sensitive people, and if I were to give those people like 15 supplements, Which I see, you know, being done sometimes. Like here’s this protocol of 15 supplements, and it’s kind of rigid. They would feel terrible, and they wouldn’t trust me, and they would be like, what are you doing?

Like I can’t, I can’t take all this. I’m so overwhelmed, right? So doing things in layers, like not trying to address everything at once, addressing things one at a time, and then introducing things one at a time for the super sensitive people who are like, I really can’t, I don’t know if I’m gonna be able to tolerate this.

Okay, let’s like open the capsule and put a little bit of powder and see how you feel on this day, right? People’s systems, especially people who are really traumatized and who have dysregulated nervous systems and trauma. It’s like, they can only, like you said, they can only tolerate so much. So there has to be kind of like a gentleness with it.

Cause I think when we think, you know, [00:32:00] um, bacterial overgrowth or parasites, we think we just have to be super aggressive. And it’s, it’s not like that, at least from what I, what I’ve observed and the people that I work with. Yeah. And I’m curious, maybe this is an aside that will just take us off route, but what, because my mind always goes back to why was my, for example, small intestine a hospitable environment for this bacteria?

Yeah. So, and, and I guess to, to your point, it’s kind of like, yeah, now, now I have the bacteria and it’s causing these microvilli to not be able to absorb nutrients. So if I clear out the bacteria, then maybe I’ll be able to absorb more nutrients again, but even that there’s something there of, but why could it thrive in the first place?

Yeah. Yeah. And that’s what you have to ask yourself, right? Like, why is this a hospital and hospitable environment? Um, and you know, again, it comes back to chronic stress. It comes back to your nervous system. Oftentimes, like, I hardly ever see somebody that has [00:33:00] SIBO or a gut issue that is not chronically stressed.

Yeah. Yeah. Like, it’s rarely do I see somebody with rampant gut issues who’s like, Yeah, you know, everything’s good. Like, everything’s chill. Life is great. I just, I spend the mornings basking in the sun and I sip on my tea. Like, no. No. No. Yeah, totally. And maybe also, again, sort of that spiral we’re talking about.

Maybe there’s some initial stress. And again, we’re not, we’re not saying that you have some initial stress and then immediately you have SIBO. It’s that kind of slow downward spiral. Maybe you have some initial stress paired with maybe a low, not a very nutrient dense diet, which then is kind of creating this perfect storm that then becomes something much bigger.

Okay. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And just not eating the right foods for your, like, there are, there is the concept of food intolerance. Um, now there are some foods that people really can’t enzymatically break down. There is celiac disease. [00:34:00] Um, but oftentimes when people have a food intolerance and they’re not able to digest particular foods, it has to do with their microbiome.

Because it’s the bugs that are making the enzymes to digest those foods. It’s not, it’s not us. So if we change our microbiome and we cultivate a better microbiome, that’s, and that’s, that’s really like what I, if there’s anything anyone, you know, should take away from this, it’s like, okay. Yes, you might have this pathology in your gut and treat that.

Awesome. But also really make sure you’re tending to your microbiome because your microbiome does so much for you. Those short chain fatty acids that those positive, um, probiotic bugs in your gut produce are so beneficial for you. So, um, eating the soluble fiber, eating the resistant starch, eating the polyphenols, all the things that are supportive to your gut microbiome.

Like most people when I tell them you should be eating 30 different plants a week, they’re like, I’m nowhere near that. Yeah, totally. [00:35:00] Yeah. I’m nowhere near that. Yeah, completely. That’s, I mean, it’s so profound. And then the way that that starts to trickle out into the kind of emotional wellness. One of the things you said was this creates inflammation, systemic inflammation that can go even into the brain.

Yeah. I also know we produce what like. 95 percent of our serotonin in the gut? Yeah. How, how else is that kind of contributing to, to anxiety? Yeah. So it’s really those two main mechanisms. Now there is kind of some conversation around is the serotonin in the gut really, um, activating the brain as much as we think it is, or is it activating the gut brain because they’re connected via the vagus nerve, but, um, serotonin is actually a pro kinetic agent, right?

There are. Serotonin receptors in your gut that are responsible for the motility. So some say like, well, the serotonin produced in your gut is for your gut. But regardless, like if you have a gut, that’s not able to absorb [00:36:00] the nutrients that your blood is going to take and transport to where they, where they need to go in order to create the building blocks to the chemicals that you need to feel good.

That’s really like, that’s the issue. So whether or not it’s the serotonin produced in your gut or the nutrients that are obser absorbed and are creating the building blocks, the issue is the same thing. Mm-hmm . You don’t have enough raw material and so mm-hmm . To fix that, we have to fix that, that sponge Right.

It’s, it’s, it’s gunked up with a bunch of tar on it. Right. We need a, we need a nice absorbent sponge. Yeah. And are there, is there anything else? That you see other than like pathogenic overload in the gut that Yeah. You know, sometimes needs to be cleared out. Yeah, um, so Well, from the perspective of looking at your gut, we have pathobionts, we have commensal bugs, and we have probiotics.

The commensal bugs can be opportunistic at times, but they tend to be less problematic or less inflammatory than the pathobionts. [00:37:00] Um, so sometimes the commensal bugs can get out of, like a good example of that would be something like H. pylori, right? Um, just because somebody has H. pylori present, it doesn’t mean that it is problematic for them.

In some people it can be commensal, but in other people it can be pathogenic. And that’s where you can start to look at some of the genes that the H. pylori is producing. But if somebody has the clinical picture, right? If they’re nauseous, if they have a lot of reflux, you know, they’re not, their, their stomach, they have a lot of stomach issues.

Maybe they even have an ulcer. Like that would be way down the road. Um, then yeah, we got to treat it, but maybe the person is completely okay. And we see a little bit of H pylori show up. It can be commensal. And sometimes people are being treated for things that they don’t necessarily need to be treated for using pretty strong, potent things that can then again, disrupt the microbiome.

So it’s really like looking at things within the context of like, is this actually clinically relevant? Or is it just commensal, um, from the functional standpoint, you know, low stomach acid or [00:38:00] just in Chinese medicine or Ayurveda, they might call it like low Agni or low digestive fire. Right. And that kind of comes from stress.

If somebody’s chronically stressed, they don’t have that fire or that vitality to break down their food. So supporting that, right. Supporting the flow of bile, like just the digestive. processes because there’s something called the cephalic phase of digestion. Cephalic refers to the head, right? So it’s how we are interpreting that food is going to enter our body.

So when we get that signal, we start to secrete saliva, our salivary amylases or carbohydrate. Digesting enzymes start to secrete. We start to secrete stomach acid. Our bile starts, our juices start to flow from our gallbladder, which help us digest and break down fats. Um, and so sometimes those processes aren’t happening because that gut brain connection is poor and somebody’s stressed.

And a lot of people are eating like while they’re, you know, running from one appointment to the next, or just like taking a bite, a handful of crackers or whatever. So really like some great [00:39:00] practices that you can do is just. Make sure when you’re eating, like, you’re not in front of the screen, like, not scrolling your phone, like, maybe even going outside, putting your feet on the grass, taking some deep breaths, or if you’re in an office, fine, just, like, don’t look at the screen and take some deep belly breaths.

Yeah, yeah. And then some herbal bitters as well, because bitters will stimulate those receptors, and then that will get all those juices flowing. So a brand that I just discovered this year and have been absolutely obsessed with it is the fullest saffron latte I actually had Nikki Bostwick the founder of the Fullest on the podcast that episode is 156 For any who want to go back and listen to it and i’ll make sure it’s linked in the show notes below as well the episode But after I had this conversation with her I immediately ran out and bought The saffron latte powder and it is so delicious I drink it every single evening and it’s [00:40:00] become such a beautiful ritual for me because i’m such a beverage girly.

I love having Different beverages to drink throughout the day, but to also have something in the evening that has no caffeine Such clean ingredients, but what you’ll guys hear if you haven’t listened to that podcast episode yet is that the studies have found recently that Saffron at a certain dose at a certain dose is just as effective as Prozac for helping Anxiety, depression, ADHD, and so it’s something that I have absolutely loved myself.

I feel like I’ve noticed a difference in my general countenance being even more uplifted, calm, grounded, especially for me in this time of a lot of change. And it’s something I have been recommending so much lately to clients, to some of my cancer patients, because of how clean it is. And there’s so many other benefits outside of the mood support, the anxiety, the depression, it’s super anti inflammatory, anti cancerous.[00:41:00]

But it’s become kind of my product of the year that I’m just like, Oh my god, how can I get everyone to try this? So they have the latte powder, which I absolutely love, and the dosage of saffron in the latte powder is the highest. But they also have capsules that you can take that still meet that minimum dosage that has been studied.

And the capsules are a little bit, a little bit less expensive as well. So really encourage you guys check out the link below in the show notes for discount codes, holiday sales, and give the fullest to try. You’re making me think of last year in the summer was an incredibly stressful time for me. A lot of things kind of hit all at once.

And. I started having gut stuff come up and I think now because I’m like so much more in my body and it’s my body. I noticed it and felt it right away. Yeah. Um, but it was kind of to the point where like at least once a month I was just throwing up because I just couldn’t [00:42:00] digest my food. Wow. And I had a two week period.

I finally just was like, Okay. No matter what I eat, I’m just not feeling good. I just need to give my gut a little break. And so for, for two weeks, I literally just had an all liquid diet, like raw milk, protein shakes, some juices, maybe with some fiber capsules, but I just like, didn’t eat solid food for two weeks.

Cause I could just feel my whole system. Yeah. It’s like, it’s too much. Yeah. And then knowing, oh, this is, I knew immediately this is emotional, this is stress related. And so doing all that extra work, but it was really actually neat for me to see that in myself and go, wow, first of all, this response is so immediate.

Yeah. This digestive turbulence. And, and the stress was like devastating. So it was really huge for me, but. Also then like the attunement with my body, which I definitely did not always have. I was like a head around, you know, [00:43:00] disconnect. I can relate. And if you, you know, if it had been me five plus years ago, I probably would have just suffered through it.

Not attuning to those signals, but being able to go, Oh, something’s off. The stress is really affecting me. How, how can I actually physiologically lighten the load for a little bit while also addressing some of these bigger. Root causes and processing that so yeah, yeah, it wasn’t the intent to like stay on a liquid diet forever.

I just knew Look right now. This is what feels good Yeah I’m gonna give that to my body and then come out of it when it feels good So and that’s so cool that you have the ability to do that right, you have like the level of understanding and trust in your body to where You could be like, Hmm, I think my body is going through something right now and I need to listen to it and maybe tweak some things and support it.

But I trust that my body knows what it’s doing, right? Whereas somebody who really struggles with anxiety might be like, What is it? What do I have? What disease do I [00:44:00] have? I have to, you know, and then, and then that can spiral into a deeper. So, um, I think like something that I, that I hope for people that I work with is to get them to that place that when a crisis does arrive, arise, because it will like, we’re going to have crisis in our life.

We’re human. Right. And so when that does happen, do you have the faculties and the resources? It’s to trust your body and to recalibrate things, right? To trust that your body knows what it’s doing because our bodies are so intelligent. So that was, thank you for sharing that because that’s really, really nice for me to hear.

Okay. Yeah. Well, and I think to the empowerment from your practitioners of, I can assess myself to some extent, right? That’s not something we throw out the practitioners, but yeah, I think that is the more kind of Yeah. And such a holistic way to live. Um. Yes. We do know so much and we are so attuned and we have [00:45:00] we have developed our own skills and toolkits.

Yes To be able to do so much for ourselves. And then when we’re like, I’m, I’m tried all the things it’s still not working or it helped a bit, but something’s still lingering. Great. Now let me go get another level of expertise. Yes, exactly. And moving to that level of expertise from the place of like, I know my body and I feel comfortable with whatever symptoms my body is expressing, but I would like somebody to help me support it versus like.

I don’t trust this experience. And, and that’s okay if that’s where you are. Like, yeah, but just as a place to head towards or as a destination. Yeah. And finding those practitioners who want to kind of help equip you to do that as well. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I, gosh, I feel like I need two hours with every single person.

I really want to get to towards the end. Yeah. Like treatment phase versus lifestyle phase and what that looks [00:46:00] like. And just. lifestyle practices for general wellness when it comes to anxiety. But I also want to pull back and go, okay, so when someone comes to you, they’ve got all of this, a little bit of the flow chart, maybe even some more of the testing you do.

We did kind of cover this in some ways as we were talking about potential root causes. Yeah. But I would be kind of interested in your flow chart of someone’s coming in. Here’s how I’m starting. Maybe here’s some of the favorite tests I like to do. If there’s an order of operations. Yeah. So pretty much on every new patient I get.

I’m doing a blood test. I’m doing a stool test, and the other test is kind of a floater. I might do a hair test. I might do a salivary cortisol test. I might do a, something called a pyrrole test, which is one of those biochemical markers. Um, it depends on the person, but everyone’s getting a stool test and everyone’s getting a blood test.

And the blood test looks at a lot of things. It looks at [00:47:00] hormones, sex hormones, thyroid hormones. All the things that you could need to understand what’s going on during the right days in the cycle. Um, looking at things like iron status, looking at things like, um, markers of metabolic, you know, inflammation or liver inflammation.

Looking at things like, um, some of those biochemical things that I said. So copper, zinc, ceruloplasmin, whole blood histamine. Um, that’s kind of like my, my meaty kind of primary blood test workup. And then the stool test that I do is, is looking at the health of the microbiome, but it’s also checking for pathogens.

Mm hmm. Mm hmm. Yeah. Okay. And then, and then it’s a lot of like, it’s a lot of understanding what’s going on with somebody through speaking to them because there’s only so much information I can get from labs and I don’t discount the, the impact and the validity of just a really good [00:48:00] intake. Like I spend 90 minutes.

Um, and the initial visit. So I’m asking a lot of questions and I can kind of see where things are, where the holes are in somebody’s life. And I could be like, okay, I think this is probably an area that we need to focus. Or like, I was never the same since I took this medication or I, you know, I lost, uh, I lost a parent or I, you know, and those things are significant.

Yeah, well completely. And then to that end, like for example, one of the things you said earlier was I don’t tend to start with parasites. We’ve also talked about hormones. Is there a general, like, oh, I start, yeah, I start with hormones and then move into pathogens, or I start with all of it, but in a really gentle way?

I start with getting the big picture. Assessing the big picture and then taking a step back and using my intuition and also speaking with the individual that I’m present with, where do we start? And usually that’s going to be the gut. If they have a lot of things going on in the gut, we figure out what that is.

We might do a breath test as [00:49:00] well if they’re SIBO. Um, and start there and address that. And then there’s always going to be, cause you mentioned lifestyle practices. That’s always going to be layered in first before we even have lab results, like really honing in the lifestyle because your life is your medicine.

Like life is really the most potent and. Important part of the whole process, really dialing, dialing in your life so that you’re living in a way that supports health and supports vitality versus drains vitality. So, Yeah. Yeah. But I also love that you’re saying there’s, there’s an intuition. And I, I absolutely use this in client work as well, where there’s a, there is no one set protocol.

There is one set order of operations. There’s a, sometimes with. This person or this type of energy or this archetype of a client. Yes. We have to go here first and others. We have to go there first. And I think it’s nice as like a listener and a client to be like, tell me exactly what you do. And for some reason there is something about like a set [00:50:00] protocol that makes us feel safe.

Yes. But I actually am very wary when there’s a one size fits all approach. I can’t do that because I wouldn’t be effective if I did that. You know, even if I wanted to, it wouldn’t work because everyone is so different. So yes. And you just feel it. Like I, sometimes I feel it physically in my body. It’s like an energetic thing of, Ooh, I can’t, I can’t go there yet with that person.

We’ve got to go here first. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I do want to ask this question, which is, Kind of twofold. One, are there things you’re seeing in people who are coming to you and clients you’re working with that are just like common missteps or common misconceptions when it comes to. You know, working with anxiety or kind of the flip side of that question, just in the general ethers of mass media, social media, pop culture.

Are there things you hear or see a lot when it comes to addressing anxiety that you’re just like, Oh no. Yeah. Um, well, I [00:51:00] think the thing that really frustrates me, and again, I’m not pro or like. I try not to take a very polarized stance on anything and I try to see the nuance in all situations and there’s a time and a place for everything.

But I do get really frustrated when women go to their doctors and they have really bad postpartum anxiety or they have really bad, you know, um, just anxiety in general or depression and they’re just offered or PMDD. They’re just offered a birth control pill or an antidepressant. Like that’s like they have two options, right?

And if, and that doesn’t work for everyone. And if it does, that’s awesome. And that’s great. Like sometimes we really need to get people in a better place so that they can function in their lives. But if you’re just giving them that you’re not doing any further workup or investigation as to what their body really needs or what their soul really needs.

You’re doing that person a disservice. And so that makes me really upset because I get so many women that are just like, yeah, my doctor just was like, yeah, here, take this pill. I don’t know what else to tell you. Or, Oh, it’s [00:52:00] normal. Or just like all the gaslighting, which I think is something that’s really well, you know, um, spoken about on the internet.

And I’m really grateful for like the awareness around that. But despite the awareness, it’s still happening. Right. And it’s, and it’s not that like. Conventional doctors or primary care doctors are like bad people and they just don’t care about people. It’s that they don’t have the tools. Like it’s not in their training.

They don’t understand these things. And so people are just kind of left like, okay, I guess I will just figure it out on my own. And then they end up going on the internet and researching and you know, this person is like trying to sell this supplement and this person’s trying to sell this. Everyone’s trying to sell you something right on the internet.

And it’s like, Oh, I took this probiotic and my anxiety went away. And I’m like, I, I feel, I feel for those people. And I also feel, I do feel a bit of anger on some of the predatory, like marketing of like, this product is going to solve your problems. Like, no, it’s not. And maybe, maybe in one out of 50 people it [00:53:00] is, but again, we’re all so different.

And how is anyone going to know that anything is going to really help somebody without actually understanding the individual? Everything is so bio individualized and as I illustrated before, a certain nutrient can be really helpful and beneficial for somebody and it can completely push a different person in the wrong direction.

So those are kind of my, my hangups with things. And I think by the time people find me, they’ve realized that, you know, their doctors are not going to help them. The stuff that they bought on the internet isn’t working. They want somebody to really do the deep dive and understand and help them understand what’s going on.

Yeah, completely. And I think to the point we’re both making, it’s not that those things shouldn’t be on the market or anything to that effect. I think for me, it just comes back to, I also want to educate my clients and patients with as many tools as possible. And then say, Experiment with some of the stuff, experiment with the nervous system work, experiment with acupuncture or this type of meditation and yeah, find the ones that work for [00:54:00] you.

Yes. Um, just like some of those supplements might be really great. Some of them might not, but I think having someone with such an expertise and a broader lens. That can also hold the vision for you is so powerful to work with and then who also just has all those resources. Yeah. Yeah. They try this, this might not work for you, but if you want to try it, go ahead.

If it doesn’t, here’s where we’ll go next. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I think people are. Um, and they’re intelligent and smart and they may not give themselves enough credit for what their body is intuitively telling them. So, yeah, like if you find something that works, go for it. There are some things that I, I will say might make you feel better in the short term, but worse in the long term.

So there’s, there’s that to be, everything’s like specific, but at the end of the day, like. Everyone’s on their journey. Everyone’s doing the best that they can and we should all be kind and helpful and gracious and understand, like, [00:55:00] this is not an easy process, right? Like, healing mind, body, soul is not a walk in the park.

This is like, this is an endeavor and it’s a, it’s a lifestyle shift. I mean, it’s, it’s confronting. It’s vulnerability. I mean, really, it’s What I see is kind of, if I had to break it down into two archetypes, it’s the individuals who are experiencing something and they want whatever they, whatever they can get, that will allow them to continue to live the life they’re already living.

Yes. And then there’s the individuals who are approaching this going, something’s up. I want to understand the deeper root cause of it. And I am willing. To change my life in whatever way my mind, body and spirit is telling me I need to. Yeah. To be able to sustainably change this. Yeah. I love working with a second category of people.

Yes, completely. I’m sure you do too. Yeah, I think, I think probably both of us are energy. [00:56:00] That’s what we’re attracting in. Yeah, yeah, yes. I do want to take a sec because I think this is important to talk about. I talk about this a lot with cancer patients, the difference between treatment phase and what I might call lifestyle phase because treatment phase is more intense.

Maybe we are doing more testing and we are taking more supplements. Yes. Um, our, maybe our diet is a little more rigid than it normally would be. Yes. Um, but that reminder of this exactly how it looks right now might not be how it’s going to be forever. And also to the point we just made, it’s not do this deep treatment phase.

And then go back to everything we were doing before. Exactly. Yeah. I want to hear from you though, some of the kind of general lifestyle tips. Or, you know, when we’re That would be more in the, in the lifestyle phase. Yes. When we’re in lifestyle phase. Yeah. What are some of those things for you that maybe you do or you see or you recommend to clients often where it’s like, Hey, even once we’re out of that place.

[00:57:00] Yeah. These are some of the things we want to be doing regularly. Like an ideal, ideal day. I could go on and on, um, but I will just hone in on what I consider to be the essentials and the most effective simple things. The first one being light in your circadian rhythm. So I like to say in the morning or during the daytime, a lot of us have a light deficiency.

And nighttime we have a light excess. So correcting that, right. Um, many people are not spending enough time outside and the sunlight has to get in your eyes. It’s not just like you go outside with sun with sunglasses. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Sunglasses or contacts or glasses, like getting naked eye exposure is setting an internal biological clock, doing that in the morning.

Um, we have our UVA in the morning. We have our UVB in the afternoon and our UVA again at night. We also have infrared light, like our bodies are designed to be synced [00:58:00] with the natural world outside, but we live indoors in artificial lighting and artificial environment. So how can we, in this. Weird artificial world that we’ve built, bring our bodies back to more of an ancestral time, right?

With, with light as medicine. That’s really important. Um, and so I’m sure your listeners probably know, but like blue light exposure at night, that’s going to be disruptive to the circadian rhythm, so either popping on some dark red or dark amber lenses, or just not having overhead lights on, having more red lights.

Once the sun goes down outside, your internal environment should mimic that, or just very dimly lit lights. Um, same thing with like screens not consuming. A lot of screens or if you are if you have to like making sure that that you have some kind of a red filter and it’s the light is dim when you’re doing that.

Um, and then again outside getting outside in the morning and then again outside in the afternoon. Um, there’s a cool app called the My Circadian [00:59:00] app. that tells you when the UVB is at its peak. Um, and so you can go outside and that’s how you synthesize vitamin D is when UVB is out. Um, so a lot of people are getting their vitamin D tested and their vitamin D is low and they’re taking vitamin D supplements, which is a whole thing that I can go into, but that’s, that’s too much to talk about right now.

But like, why are we not outside? Right. And I understand that people lead busy, busy lives and you know, some people spend all day in an office, but even if it’s like, you have your lunch break, you have an hour, you know, you’re at a desk job. Can you go outside and eat your lunch outside? Like, can you resist the temptation to like stay inside under the artificial light and scroll and, you know, binge dopamine and instead go outside and get some natural dopamine.

Um, so that’s, that’s really a pillar. And I think when that alone is dialed in, people feel a lot better and a lot more autonomous and, and. Like they’re standing up taller. Um, the other thing is like, especially as a woman with our emotional waves that we go through and our hormone fluctuations is giving our bodies the [01:00:00] space to express and to feel what it is that’s coming up.

I think a lot of women don’t allow themselves to feel. And so what happens is when we suppress our emotions, those manifest in anger or anxiety. So if you’re feeling really heavy or really low, instead of just being like, I’m just gonna just drink a bunch of coffee and I don’t want to deal with this right now, I don’t have time and da da da da, I’m gonna drink some wine or da, like, can you, can you just tune into that and just, even if it’s just like, hey, I see you, anxiety, I see you, you know, stress, I see you melancholy, like, I just, I just want to give you.

a little bit of space to just be, it’s okay that you’re here. I’m here with you. Like even just doing that and acknowledging your own emotions goes a long way. And I’ve experienced this myself, right? Um, so I’m not so much giving you the naturopathic things that maybe people would expect to hear from a naturopathic doctor, like [01:01:00] take a B complex and, you know, um, eat your protein before you, before you drink your coffee and all that.

stuff, but I think most people know that, you know, and I think that that information is like very well distributed at this point. And I think what people really need to understand is like, we are human beings and we have human needs. We need to be in sync with nature. We need to be able to feel our emotions like on a basic level.

And I know these things sound so basic, but most people aren’t doing these things because they’re not encouraged. Right, right. Well, and just also that. I don’t want this to sound dismissive because in some ways health can be really complex and tricky. And then in so many ways, like it’s simple. And when we bring in some of these simple things, those can be some of the most impactful.

And I’ve talked about this before, where sometimes I think there’s like these deeper unconscious beliefs that are actually hindering our healing of I have to earn it. Yeah. If it’s not hard, it’s not enough. [01:02:00] Yeah. And, and I think you’re making such a great point of actually it doesn’t have to be, or maybe not when we’re in that like lifestyle longevity place.

Maybe yes. We’re in a treatment phase. Yeah. It’s a bit hard and, and kind of challenging and confronting for sure. But that lifestyle phase I think really should be quite easeful and sustainable and nourishing. Not. I’m just living in misery, so that I can have longevity. Absolutely. Yeah. And you know, having some, having some flexibility, you know, I made a comment about drinking wine when you’re stressed.

It’s not that you can’t drink wine. You know, it’s just that what, like anytime you’re involved in a behavior, just ask yourself, am I doing this from a place of like, I’m feeling good and I’m going to go spend time with my friends. Or is it like, this is my coping mechanism. Right. And just getting curious about those things.

And if it is, that’s okay. Like that’s okay. If that’s where you’re at, but just having a sense of [01:03:00] curiosity, because if you truly want to break the patterns, you have to get curious about. You know the behavior and this isn’t to like to minimize anything that anyone’s going through because trust me I know I know the extent of going through really difficult times and and being in crisis with your health.

I’ve experienced it a lot of my clients experience it but like really like just understanding that it’s okay to be a human and it’s okay to just take a step back, especially when things get overwhelming, right? Sometimes people have multiple diagnoses like, Oh, I have mold toxicity, I have this, I have that, and I have to do this, you know, I have to sauna this many times, and take this supplements, and do this, and then a parasite, and then they’re just like consuming, consuming, consuming, and they have so much anxiety about it, and it’s like, okay, can we, can we just like, create a little bit of like safety, and a little bit of like, it’s okay for this to feel really crappy, and like, let’s, have you, have you, Gone outside today.

Have you drank some water? Like really just kind of reeling it back in because we can really get [01:04:00] People to a really far away place from where they need to be not just with conventional medicine but with functional medicine and I talk about this all the time like functional medicine and naturopathic medicine are beautiful tools, but they can definitely Pull people off center.

So keeping that in mind and always bringing it back to the mind and the body and the individual and the person that that person is and their unique needs. Mm-hmm . Oh, that’s such, that’s a perfect place to close it. awesome. Um, yeah, I, there’s always, I always lately have been feeling this way. It’s just like.

Oh, I need another hour at least to cover all the facets of it. And then of course, all the beautiful, just organic trails we go down naturally anyways. But that was super, super wonderful. I want to make sure, um, your Your Instagram, your website will all be linked on the show notes so that people can find you and reach out to you.

But if you want to share those here as well, just kind of your website, your Instagram handle. Yeah. So, um, I [01:05:00] go by Dr. Allie or Dr. Alice either way. Um, my Instagram is @DrMcLane. Um, my website is Dr. Allie McLane.com. So it’s a little confusing there, but if you are on my Instagram, my website is linked, or you can just Google me.

Either way. Beautiful. I will make sure it’s linked. Thank you so, so much for coming on. And I really recommend a follow on your page. Cause you post such great stuff. I really, really love. I really appreciate it. Thank you, Leigh Ann, for having me. It was great talking to you. It was such a joy. Thank you so much.